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Re: Van Siclen/Van Sicklen Controversy revisited”
Posted by: Ed Gusman (ID *****7908) Date: October 18, 2002 at 19:10:44
In Reply to: Re: Van Siclen/Van Sicklen Controversy revisited” by Douglas Van Curen of 1583

Another calculation……
Transcribed by Notary from Maria Van Siclen Eastling‘s bible “Luther C. Eastling born May 30th 1791” and “Maria Eastling was born Sept 15th 1801”….

On the Cemetery stone -Maria wife of L.C. Eastling
Died March 4 1868
Age 66 years, 6 months and 18 days

Sept 15 1801 plus 66 years equals Sept 15 1867

Sept 15 1867 plus 6 months equals
Oct 15
Nov 15
Dec 15
Jan 15 1868
Feb 15
March 15 1868 plus 18 days equals
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
April 1
April 2 1868

With a Bible entered Birth date for Maria of Sept 15 1801 and living 66 years 6 months and 18 days as inscribed on Maria’s grave marker - Maria’s date of death should be April 2 1868 and not March 4 1868 as inscribed on the Marker.

Are my calculations wrong?

So there you have the rest of the story. I was waiting for you Douglas Van Curen - your response is as predicted…..Was Maria born Sept 15 1801 or April 2 1868. I accept Sept 15 1801 as Maria’s correct birth date. Obviously she wrote it in her Bible and she should know. Whereas whoever was responsible for inscribing on her stone the number of years she lived, was responsible for incorrectly calculating Maria’s lifespan.

A few things I knew (1) You knew the Sept 15 1801 date was in Maria’s Bible (2) I knew your entire although erroneous theory, had to have a Sept 15 1801 birth date for the Reform Church Fishkill NY 1801 baptismal record to work. A deviation by one day would trash you entire theory. (3) It was a foregone conclusion that you would choose the affidavit marriage date over any date presented to yourself - if the date presented varied from Sept. 15 1801. (4) I predicted that you would cackle with glee believing as you would that I believed that I had discovered a date different although incorrect for the birth date of Maria Van Sicle.

In other words I had set you up as an experiment and you performed like a dancing puppet right on cue.
Now let us examine Maria’s bible record which the notary had transcribed.
……………………………….................................................................................
Copied from Maria Van Siclen’s Bible transcript - “Luther C. Eastling born May 30th 1791” and “Maria Eastling was born Sept 15th 1801”, that subsequent entries among many others in said family bible are the following “Luther & Maria Van Siclin Eastling was married July 22nd 1814”, Fanny Hill Eastling born November the 20th 1837”, Francis Irons was married to Fanny Eastling April the 22 1854 in her 17 year”, “father Van Siclen died March the ?? in 1850”, that the entry of the birth of “Fanny Hill Eastling“ is the tenth-entry of births of children of Luther and Maria Eastling, that the day of the month in the record of the death of “father Van Siclen” is too indistinct to read. That the mother of applicant is the Fanny Hill Eastling whose birth and marriage are recorded in said bible as above set forth.

(Signed) Violetta Voorhees

Subscribed and sworn & before me April 6 1907
L.R. Larson
Notary Public
………………………………..................................................................................................

Significant entries”

1. “Luther C. Eastling born May 30th 1791”
2. “Maria Eastling was born Sept 15th 1801”
3. “Luther & Maria Van Siclin Eastling was married July 22nd 1814”
4. “father Van Siclen died March the ?? in 1850”
5. “the entry of the birth of “Fanny Hill Eastling“ is the tenth-entry of births of children of Luther and Maria Eastling,”

Each significant statement above was entered by Maria Van Siclen or her husband into their Bible.
Each significant Bible entry was transcribed by the same Notary on the same date.
Is there anything about the Bible transcriptions that might lead any one to believe that the Bible entries had been made under duress, for purposes of deception or for any nefarious objective that can be perceived? A reader can judge for themselves.
Do the Bible entries read as though Maria Van Siclen or her husband had any axes to grind or scores to settle? A reader can judge for themselves.

What entries did Douglas Van Curen find believable.
# 1 - #2 - #4 : #4 is conditionally acceptable if Van Curen can apply the entry to the Cornelius Van Sicklen/Van Siclen born in 1775 and buried in Brighton Ontario.
#4 is not acceptable if applied to the Cornelius Van Siclen who was married to Catherine Johnson as described by the Eastling affidvits.
Which entries did Douglas Van Curen find to be unbelievable.
#3 - #4 .
- #5 is partially acceptable and partially rejected

Why do you suspect Douglas Van Curen accepted and rejected each entry?
# 1 was innocuous, non-threatening to his personal selected Maria Van Sicklen/Van Siclen, therefore acceptable.
#2 supported his perception of the accuracy of the Reform Church Fishkill NY 1801Baptismal record therefore acceptable.
#3 Created a marriage age of less that 13 for Maria Van Siclen - therefore not acceptable. reject the Bible transcribed entry. Such an age violates the Douglas Van Curen belief about children marrying, therefore Van Curen alleges that Maria Van Siclen, although she knew her birth date and Luther’s birth date, Maria Van Siclen did not know the date she married Luther C. Eastling - Can anyone seriously believe that Maria Van Siclen didn’t know the date of her own marriage?
#4 The Death of Cornelius Van Sicklen/Van Siclen born 1775 occurred on March 19 1850 and the Bible transcribed death entry is therefore acceptable if applied to Cornelius Van Sicklen/Van Siclen. Consequently, Van Curen rejects the Bible transcribed death entry because he knows the entry was written for the affidavit Cornelius Van Siclen - Consequently, the death entry is only conditionally acceptableby Van Curen.
#5 Maria Van Siclen recorded the births of 10 of her children with Fanny being the 10th. Van Curen states that Fanny didn’t know how many children she had and consequently Van Curen records only the birth of 7 and rejects the birth of three. Is there anyone reading this who can believe that a mother, after going though child birth in the early 1800’s in Canada or any place for that matter, will not remember the number of children she gave birth to? Is there any reader who would believe that merely because three of Maria Van Siclen’s first 10 children were old enough (two of the three had married) to remain in Canada when the Luther family left Canada and their names did not appear on the 1850 Indiana Census. Van Curen didn’t record those three children in a genealogy because Van Curen doesn’t believe they were born to Maria Van Siclen.

I repeat that each of the five entries above was written either by Maria Van Siclen or her husband into their Bible and transcribed and Notarized after being placed in Violetta’s transcript.

This will end this chapter for today. The preposterous absurdities outlined above and believed by Douglas Van Curen are without redeeming value.

My next chapter will continue with another analysis of Douglas Van Curen and his allegations.


Preceding was posted today 10-18-2002 ……………………………............................................................................................................................


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