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Home: Regional: U.S. States: Virginia: Russell County

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Carters of VA (The real Scalped Dale Carter & Mary Ann Bickley)
Posted by: Dick Zieman (ID *****1423) Date: February 09, 2005 at 15:40:51
  of 1704

Dale (Twin) Carter F.1. DFT Person In Focus ID No. 30532

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Father:
Peter (Prayer Book) Carter 1706-05-23 Barford, Lancaster Co VA 1789-12- Fauquier Co VA
F: Capt. Thomas Carter Jr. 1672-06-04 Lancaster Co VA 1733-09-30 Lancaster Co VA
M: Arabella Bertrand? Williamson 1676-- Lancaster Co VA 1737-- VA
Married: 1695-08-22 Lancaster Co VA

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Mother:
Judith Norris ca. 1710-- 1765-05-15
F:
M:
Married:

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Child(ren) of Peter (Prayer Book) Carter and Judith Norris , married 1730-05-01 Lancaster Co VA

1. Dale (Twin) Carter F.1. 1731-04-24 Lancaster Co VA 1774-10-06 Rye Cove, Russell (Scott) Co VA
2. Patriot Thomas Carter F.1. 1731-04-24 Lancaster Co VA 1803-- Rye Cove, Russell (Scott) Co VA
3. Judith Carter 1732-11-02 Lancaster Co VA
4. Job Carter F.1. 1734-01-01 VA 1782-11- Amherst Co VA
5. Patriot Joseph Carter F.1. 1736-09-04 King George (Fauquier) Co VA 1808-08-16 Rye Cove, Russell (Scott) Co VA
6. Arabella Catherine Carter 1738-08-17 King George (Fauquier) Co VA bef 1788--
7. Patriot Solomon Carter F.1. 1739-09-25 King George (Fauquier) Co VA 1786-09-28 Amherst Co VA
8. Frances Ball Carter 1741-01-08 King George (Fauquier) Co VA aft 1788--
9. Patriot Peter Carter F.2. 1743-03-09 King George (Fauquier) Co VA 1791-01- Amherst Co VA
10. Sarah Carter 1744-06-16 King George (Fauquier) Co VA aft 1788--
11. Daniel Carter F.1. 1746-12-22 King George (Fauquier) Co VA bef 1788--
12. Norris Carter F.1. 1748-11-08 King George (Fauquier) Co VA 1816-- Rye Cove, Russell (Scott) Co VA
13. George Carter F.1. 1757-03-15 Fauquier Co VA aft 1788-- Amherst Co VA


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Spouse:
Mary Ann Bickley 1746-02-03 VA 1821-01-12 Russell Co VA
F:
M:
Married:

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Child(ren) of Dale (Twin) Carter F.1. and Mary Ann Bickley , married PROBABLY



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Biography and Notes:

Dale (Twin) Carter F.1. Buried:

Twin Brother of Thomas Carter did not Die in Amherst nor In Infancy (A-Albemarle F-Fauquier)

According to the standard literature for many years now, it was the Dale Carter of Charles Sr. A.1. who was caught just outside the gates of Fort Blackmore and scalped, etc. However, The Margie Brown Rebuttal originally found in a footnote to The History of Sumner County website, proves that Dale of Charles was too young to have had a family at this time , and that it was his cousin, our Dale, who was scalped. By analogy, she proves by court testimony that it was Elizabeth of Charles Senior who was later massacred with her seven children - and not the daughter of Joseph Blakemore.

"The Dale Carter killed by the Indians at Blackmore's Fort in 1774 has also been misidentified as another son of Charles Sr. and Lucy Carter. The administrator of Dale Carter's estate was identified as his brother Thomas Carter. Thomas Carter was a son of Peter and Judith Carter [Wash. Co., WBK 1 p 25], who has also previously been identified as a brother of the John Carter who died in 1803".

Unfortunately, Will Book 1. is one of the few documents not transcribed for us on the Washington County GenWeb - it will take a trip to Abingdon to retrieve a copy of this vital document. Separately, from extensive cross checking of all the Carters in Rye Valley, three brothers named John, Thomas and Dale are not to be found. Unlike other glaring errors found in books, this minor mishap is quite understandable under the confusing circumstances. Despite her otherwise superlative work, even Margie slipped on this point - she had previously demonstrated that the children of John Carter who died in 1803 were proven descendents of Thomas. Nothing more or less.

The source of this error appears to be the letter from Major Arthur Campbell to Col. William Preston, from the standard literature (below). However .......... dosn't the writer of this oft' quoted work himself say that the adminstrator of Dale's estate was his brother Thomas? Just by paying attention to this simple detail, couldn't Kopy Kat researchers have eliminated Dale of Charles right off the top, and saved us all years of misdirection?

We now need to follow through with The Margie Brown Rebuttal (which can be found in our Bio of Elizabeth of Charles Senior) and trace cousin Dale A.1. to Sumner County TN ..... and ..... in the process, generate a list of children for our Dale F.1. Because of the inadequate work of both amateur and professional in all the following, we can not blithely accept the children reported for Dale (1744) and the now proven Mary Ann Bickley, can we? Having said that, the four children attributed to them would fit this timeline; we just need to be very careful.

It would appear our Thomas, his son John and twin brother Dale - and not his cousins - removed together to Rye Cove on the upper reaches of the Clinch River, Fincastle County, Virginia - that part which eventually became Scott. They all had their surveys of land on 26 March 1774, so the presumption is they arrived the year before. Please take special note that our Dale was shot and scalped just six months later in October!

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So much for even William and Mary as a reliable source of information!

First of all, there was a minor error in the transcription of The Thomas Prayer Book - the first born was not 'Dale Thomas', rather Dale and Thomas. And then .... where in Hades did the experts get Edward from:

Name: Edward Dale CARTER

GENEALOGIES OF VIRGINIA FAMILIES From the William and Mary College Quarterly Historical Magazine, Vol. I. Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishing Co., 1982. Page 655. "Edward Carter (Peter (3), Thomas (2)) had a grant for 340 acres of land in Albemarle (later Amherst) August 19, 1758. He settled here and seems to have died about 1785-90 without issue."

twin [this source had the note that he was a twin]

Birth: 24 APR 1731 in , Fauquier Co., VA Death: BET 1785 AND 1788 in , Albemarle Co., VA

Father: Peter CARTER b: 1706 in Barford, Lancaster Co., VA
Mother: Judith NORRIS b: in , Lancaster Co., VA

Q1. What evidence, never mind proof, that this Edward with a grant in 1758 is Edward Dale of Peter?
Q1.1. Is this the source of the erroneous statement found elsewhere of " brothers Job, Edward, Henry *,
Norris and Joseph" ? (Three out of five ain't bad, right?)
Q1.2. Wouldn't this be Edward Hill Carter, son of Secretary John?

See the Bio of brother Peter for the details of his land grants and disclaimer by Dr. Miller himself that *
the Henry in question was of another branch of Carter, and was a son of Henry!

Yet, our Dale had to be in Albemarle / Amherst to marry Mary Ann, who could not have arrived until 1768, with the second marriage of her father to Susanna Harding Ellis on 21 December 1767!

Is it more than coincidence that Peter's first grant in Albemarle was in 1768 - on the Horsely, at Tobacco Road Mountain - as in the proven site of Charles Carter Senior (died 1766), and that Lucy remarried to Capt. John Blackmore this same year? The site is proven to be just several miles due west of Amherst, Amherst County, and don't forget that Peter married Mary Ann Ellis!

(Solomon) "In 1767 had a grant of land in Albemarle near Amherst line, and had other land in Amherst by deed".
Even if his wife is proven not to be a Bickley, he and Peter are the link between the Carter and the Bickley!

Shall we say without contradiction that Dale Carter F.1. met and married Mary Ann Bickley in then Albemarle County, Virginia in 1768? With or without any further proof.

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Robert Addington's "History of Scott County", p. 58

"On 6 Oct. 1774 the Indians secretly approached Fort Blackmore, they came within about seventy-five yards of the gate before they were discovered. Most of the men at the time were sitting upon some logs which lay a short distance from the gate. Evidently seeing this, the Indians decided to make a bold push to enter the fort before the men could recover from their surprise. So, creeping along under the bank of the river, completely hidden from view by the bank and a fringe of trees and underbrush, they were just ready to rush into the fort when Dale Carter, who happened to be about fifty-five steps from the fort, saw them and began to halloo, "Murder, murder!" Upon hearing Carter's cry of alarm, the men ran toward the fort with all possible speed. They succeeded in reaching the gate before the Indians. Thus frustrated in their designs of cutting the men off from the fort, the Indians next turned their attention to Carter. One Indian shot at him but missed him; another shot him through the thigh, inflicting a wound, which though not mortal, rendered him too lame to escape into the fort. One Indian, more bold than the rest, soon ran up to Carter, and killing him with his tomahawk, scalped him. In the meantime, a Mr. Anderson and John Carter, who, with their guns, were either outside the fort, or, on hearing the firing, quickly ran to the outside, endeavored to prevent Carter's being scalped. Anderson shot at the Indian who was in the act of scalping Carter, while John Carter shot at another Indian who was near by. It is not known whether either of these shots took effect; they caused the Indians, however, to scamper off about one hundred yards, from which point they began firing at Anderson and his companion. Fortunately both men were unhurt by this fusillade, although some of the shots hit the stockade only a few inches from Anderson's head. By this time some of the men who had been on the logs hastily climbed into the bastion of the fort nearest the enemy, and opened a well--directed fire upon them. This drove the enemy into the woods where the little garrison dared not follow them. For a few moments the excitement was great in the little fort. Although Dale Carter's halloo of murder, sadly prophetic of his own fate, had cost him his own life, yet, no doubt, his timely warning averted the destruction of the fort".

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From the unpublished manuscript, Indian Atrocities Along the Clinch, Powell and Holston Rivers, pages 18-19.

"On the same day that Colonel Shelby's Negro girl was captured, Logan, who must have split his raiding party, sending one part against Ft. Blackmore which secretly approached the fort and got within 75 yards before being discovered. Most of the men were sitting upon some logs which lay a short distance from the gate. Evidently seeing this the Indians decided to make a bold push and enter the fort before the men could recover from their surprise. Creeping along the river bank, hidden by the bank and a fringe of brush and trees, they were just ready to push into the fort when they were discovered by Dale Carter, who was about fifty-five steps from the fort and who cried, "Murder! Murder!"

"Upon hearing Carter's alarm, the men ran towards the fort and succeeded in reaching the gate before the Indians. Frustrated in their designs of entering the fort they turned upon Dale Carter. One Indian shot at him, but missed him; another shot him through the thigh, inflicting a wound which rendered him too lame to escape into the fort. Another Indian ran up to Carter, tomahawked and scalped him.

"In a letter (1) dated October 12, 1774, from Major Arthur Campbell to Col. William Preston, he says:

"It is remarkable that Captain Shelby's wench was taken the same day, and about the same time of day, that this affair happened on Clinch. So many attacks in so short a time, give the inhabitants very alarming apprehensions. Want of ammunition and scarcity of provisions are again become the general cry. Since I began this, I am mortified with the sight of a family flying by. If ammunition does not soon come, I will have no argument that will have any force to detain them; and if our army is not able to keep a garrison at the Falls (Louisville) the ensuing winter, I expect we shall be troubled with similar visits the greater part of the coming season.

............ end of letter ............... continue with Autrocities ............... emphasis added ..............

"At a court held for Washington County, on March 18, 1778, Thomas Carter,
brother of Dale *, was appointed Administrator of his estate, with Richard Stanton
and William Houston as his securities. The estate was appraised by Archibald Scott,
Joseph Butcher, John Carter (another brother *) and Richard Stanton.

............. Just how bloody careless could you be to overlook this statement? And the names? ..............

Bickley Genealogies continue Carter errors, introduce their own:

"The Carter brothers, John, Thomas, and Dale, * had settled on the north side of Clinch river, near Blackmore's Fort about 1772. Their land grants were surveyed for them and entered in the Fincastle Survey Book on March 26, 1774.

"Dale Carter was born August 9, 1744, and was married to Mary Ann Bickley, daughter of John Bickley of Red Hill, Amherst County, VA and a sister of Charles Bickley who settled in Castlewood. There is a tradition that young Charles Bickley (1759-1839) came to the frontier to escort his widowed sister back to Amherst County, but liked the country and decided to stay. There is no evidence o f his being on the frontier prior to this date and 15 years ** would have been a tender age for a boy to settle at a frontier outpost without family ties. Dale Carter was a son of Charles and Lucy Morgan Carter and a direct descendant of Captain Thomas Carter (1672-1733) perhaps the first of the line in Virginia.".

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Note: Richard Stanton was the father of Mary who married cousin Charles A.2., while William Huston was the father of Sarah who married Charles F.1., brother to our Dale F.1.

And then, thanks to Jack Templeton on the Scott County GenForum: "A Methodist-Episcopal newspaper
called the "Southwestern Christian Advocate" published Charles Bickley's obituary in its 24 Aug 1839
issue on page 5. I'll re-state the obit as it appeared in an online abstract:

"Charles Bickley, born Virginia, July 27, 1753 went to western Virginia to protect his sister, Mrs Carter
whose husband had been killed by Indians near Blackmore's Fort, Clinch River. That sister died about
1821. ...... (more)"

Just to make this clear as mud, we have as a minimum:
A. John Bickley Senior (1713-1793) with full will and probate in Amherst County
B. John Bickley Junior (1748-1787) In Testise, Amherst, brother Charles appointed in Russell

1. Dale A.1. son of Charles and Lucy
2. Dale F.1. son of Peter and Judith
3. Dale F.2. son of Norris and Agnes, named by John of Charles and Lucy his Administrator.

I. Charles A.1. son of Peter and Judith
II. Charles A.2. son of Charles and Lucy
III. Charles F.1. son of Thomas and Elizabeth
Got all that? There will be a pop quiz in the morning.

The obiturary is raw data - no books! Never mind the exact date, there's a big difference to the story between
1753 and 1759, isn't there? ** There's more to the story of the Methodist-Episcopal found in the Bio of his cousin Dale A.1. regards deed transfers from Carter to Morris to Osborne to Norris Carter:

"Separately, Mary Ann Bickley is now proven to have married cousin Dale, and not his Uncle Solomon! From the will of John A.1. - in which he names his first cousin Dale as the executor - and the separate connection to the Stallards, the following is proven to be the son of Norris. Having to name his first cousin, in turn, completes the arguments of Margie Brown, that our John and Dale are to be found in Sumner County, Tennessee.

"Russell Co., VA Deed Book 3, p. 605, June 4, 1805:
James Osborne and Mary his wife, to Samuel Stallard, Hosea Alley, and Dale Carter and their successors for the usual purposes hereunto mentioned for $1 - only one acre including the meeting house already begun - for the use of the Methodist Episcopal Church in the United States of America according to the rules and discipline which from time to time may be agreed upon by the minister & preachers of said church".

* Proven false by The Prayer Book - John has to be the son of Thomas

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Q2. Of course Thomas had to be appointed Administrator under the circumstances. Maybe ...... perhaps ..... hopefully ...... the settlement of the estate in Washington County will indicate the children of Dale.

Q3. Which Dale Carter married Mary Ann Bickley? Uncle Dale (1731) or nephew/cousin (1744)?? Taking the essence of the story of the massacre at face value, we would have to believe it was the one actually killed - Uncle Dale. We would then have to demonstrate that he was the first to leave Fauquier, arrive in Amherst and marry Mary Ann there. Certainly possible. Only why does the oldest set out first?

With the discovery of the brother John of Charles Bickley to satisfy the 1787 estate, and then the obituary of the same Charles Bickley connecting him to the Methodist-Episcopal and to the scalping, we now have 98% Proof that it was his sister Mary Ann Bickley who married our Dale.

Separately, Margie Brown appears to have the brothers Dale and John, of Charles Senior, over in Sumner County, Tennessee; it's just not clear when they arrived - they could have married back in Virginia.

* As noted in our opening remarks, there were no brothers John, Thomas and Dale to be found in or about Rye Cove. Yet, Thomas has to be Patriot Thomas of Peter. The only John old enough to be granted a patent in 1774, was the son of Thomas - of Peter and Judith - who died in Smith County, Tennessee in 1803 found by Margie Brown. Furthermore, the only Dale of the correct age, was their cousin of Charles Sr. A.1. However ..... he would have been too young to have a family! Margie then provides a third set of evidence for the existence of our Dale past childhood:

"The heirs at law of the John Carter who died in Smith Co, Tn in 1803 but whose Will is filed in Russell Co. VA are all proven descendants of Peter and Judith Norris Carter out of Fauquier Co, VA. At least one of the children of Dale Carter who was killed at Blakemore's Fort in 1774, also appears to have claimed a portion of John Carter's estate. [Russell Co DBK 7 p. 131 ] showing a probability that this Dale was the son of Peter and Judith Norris Carter and not the son of Charles Sr. and Lucy Carter as has been claimed. "

In other words, for the third time, the twin brother of Thomas did not die in infancy.


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