Re: New book- Thames Family History: from etc.
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In reply to:
Re: New book- Thames Family History: from etc.
Walter Gabennesch 9/23/02
WILLIAM THAMES THE SON OF REVEREND DAVID THAMES and HANNAH.
REV. DAVID THAMES BORN OCTOBER 18, 1780 and DIED NOVEMBER 15, 1840;
WIFE HANNAH BORN 1782 and DIED MAY 9, 1823.
WILLIAM THAMES (1) BORN CUMBERLAND CO. NC APRIL 27, 1796 and DIED AUGUST
28, 1892, JONESBORO, CLAYTON COUNTY, GEORGIA WAS NOT THE SON OF REVEREND DAVID THAMES.
WILLIAM THAMES (2) BORN CUMBERLAND CO. NC MAY 10, 1813 and DIED IN CRAWFORD CO. GA. 1877 WAS THE SON OF REVEREND DAVID THAMES. HE MARRIED NANCY AUTERY MAY 14, 1832 in CUMBERLAND CO. NC; MOVED to GA by 1835; APPEARS ON THE 1850 AND 1860 CRAWFORD CO. GA CENSUS, GABORS DISTRICT. HE and WIFE NANCY are LISTED BORN IN NC. DAUGHTERS SARAH AGE 25 and REBECCA AGE 22, BOTH are SHOWN BORN in GA ON the 1850 CENSUS. THE 1850 CENSUS ALSO LISTS A SON NAMED WILLIAM 10 YEARS of AGE. WILLIAM AND NANCY ARE ALSO SHOWN ON THE 1860 CRAWFORD CO. CENSUS.
WILLIAM THAMES (1)
His GA Militia Pension Papers establish William Thames (1) place of birth, as near Fayetteville, NC, April 27, 1796 that would be in Cumberland County.
The Cumberland County Census of 1800 showing the household of Reverend David Thames shows one child, a female. This child is Mary Thames who was born in 1799 or early 1800 before the census was enumerated on the first Monday of August. No male child appears on this census.
Susan Camille Thames Seymour, granddaughter of William (1), states in an unnamed newspaper article in GA, that her grandfather told her he had a brother named Sam who was killed in the War of 1812 “by a British Bullet”. There is no record of David Thames having a son named Sam or Samuel or William born in the 1790’s.Records show his first child was born in about 1799 or 1800 and was a girl they named Mary. She married Henry Evans March 10, 1817.
William (1) lived in Fayette Co. GA according to the 1850 GA census.Fayette was formed on May 15, 1821 and is an original county. He is shown on the Clayton County GA census of 1860. Clayton Co. was formed November 30, 1858 from Fayette and Henry Counties.He is also shown on an 1860 agriculture census as paying taxes in Clayton Co. It is very probable that he did not move, the county of Clayton was formed and it included his property. There is no record of William (1) ever having lived in the county of Crawford, which was formed December 9, 1822 from Houston County.
WILLIAM THAMES (2)
He is listed in the Bible Record of the Nicholson Family, which are direct descendants of Reverend David Thames through his daughter Mary Thames Evans and her daughter Isabelle Evans Nicholson, as a son of Reverend David Thames along with his birth date of May 10, 1813. There is also a Cumberland Co. marriage bond, which shows William Thames marrying Nancy Autery May 14, 1832.
David Thames 1st wife “Hannah died on May 9, 1823 in the 42nd year of her age” according to the Nicholson Family Bible. To me, that means she had not yet attained the age of 43 at the date of her death. That also means that on April 27, 1796, the birth date of William (1), Hannah was fourteen or fifteen years of age. David Thames, born October 17, 1780, would have been sixteen years of age.
The 1810 Cumberland Co. NC household census of David Thames shows only one male other than himself. This would be Amos born in 1801 and proved by his request for information concerning his father’s estate sent from Texas in 1859 by his lawyer. Amos appears on the petition for division of property court record of Cumberland Co. 1840. His age is proved by the 1850 Jefferson Co. Texas census.
The 1820 Cumberland Co. NC household census of David Thames shows three males beside himself. Two males are in the 0-10 year old category. These two males would have been Joseph born February 16, 1820 and William (2) born May 10, 1813. The third male is in the 16-26 year old category and would be Amos born 1801. Enumeration day was the first Monday in August of 1820.
The 1830 Cumberland Co. NC household census of David Thames shows four males beside himself.
One male 0-5; one male 5-10; one male 10-15 and one male 15-20 are shown on this census. These males are James b. March 6, 1827, age 3; David Jr. b. December 31, 1821, age 8; Joseph b. February
16, 1820, age 10 and William born May 10, 1813 age 17. Amos has left the household. This census was enumerated in June 1830.
The Censuses of 1800-1810-1820-1830 of the household of David Thames confirm what records we have of his male children. The records and the census are identical by using William (2) and excluding William (1) and a male named Samuel.
THE WILLIAM THAMES INDENTURE SELLING LAND INHERITED FROM HIS FATHER DAVID TO HIS BROTHER JAMES THAMES EXECUTED APRIL 13, 1853.
“This Indenture made the first day of March in the year of our Lord 1853 between William Thames of the County of Crawford and State of Georgia of the first fact and James Thames of County of Bladen and State of North Carolina of the second fact”. Later it is stated that “which said lands are situated in the County of Cumberland State of NC.”It would seem that great care was taken to correctly identify the transferred land was in Cumberland Co. NC while the buyer was a resident of Bladen Co. NC. It would therefore follow that care would be taken to correctly identify the county of residence of the seller, Crawford Co. GA.
This document specifically states that it was made in Crawford County, Georgia and that the maker William Thames was a resident of the county of Crawford.William Thames personally appeared before Judge Abner S. Powers of Superior Court Macon Circuit in Crawford County to sign the document. Abner P. Powers was a Circuit Judge that traveled from county to county on a regular basis to conduct official business such as this.He signed and witnessed this document on September 13, 1853. This document was recorded in Milledgeville, Georgia December 2, 1854 when it was the capital of the state. It was probably necessary to have this indenture recorded at the State Capital of Milledgeville because the property that was being sold was out of state.Fayette Co. was in the Superior Court District Circuit of Flint River.
The tax records of Crawford Co. show William Thames living and paying taxes there throughout the period of 1850 to 1860. On November 15 of 1853 William Thames bought 80 acres in Crawford Co.from David Avera for $200. It was recorded December 3, 1853
Paul Thames supplied the following Crawford County GA. Court Minutes.
Inferior Court Records for Crawford County GA.
May 20, 1851 page 136: Jury drawn to serve November 1851 term…#20 Thames, William.
January 24, 1857 page 169: Jury drawn to serve July term…#12 Thames, William.
July 20, 1857 Jurors sworn to serve this term…#5 Thames, William.
From the Archives in Atlanta GA “Grantee Filing Docket and General Index to Deeds and Realty Mortgages Crawford County Georgia 1830 – 1940” William Thames appears on this document four times between 1853 and 1877.He is shown buying 80 acres on November 15, 1853 from David Avera.
“County Records – Ordinary Tax Digest Crawford County, Georgia 1854” William Thames is listed as paying tax on 88 acres of land valued at $500.00.
Wills of Crawford County GA 1835 – 1948 by Henry Wilder
Page 38 William Thames will proved February 1877:
Being of advanced age…. Beloved wife Nancy, with whom he had lived for 45 years….beloved daughter Rebecca A…in as much as J. G. Graydon had received $80.00 from him, he wanted his daughters Sarah J. & Rebecca A. to each receive $80….his three children, Sarah J. Joyner, Rebecca A. Thames & Mary E. Graydon.
Executives: J. G. Graydon & W. M. Ray
Witnesses: William G. Hartley, J. M. Thames & B. F. Ray.
THE BOTTOM LINE IS: WILLIAM (1) IS LISTED ON THE 1850 – 1860 – 1870 CENSUS OF FAYETTE/FRANKLIN/CLAYTON CO. GA AS BEING A RESIDENT DURING THAT TIME.
WILLIAM (2) IS LISTED ON THE 1850 – 1860 CENSUS OF CRAWFORD CO. GA, WITH HIS WIFE NANCY BOTH BORN IN NC. WILLIAM (2) IS SHOWN AS BEING BORN IN THE YEAR 1813. HE WAS A RESIDENT OF CRAWFORD CO. WHEN THE INDENTURE WAS EXECUTED.
http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/ga/crawford/census/1860/0903.gifhttp://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/ga/crawford/census/1860/0903.gif
BASED ON THE ABOVE WE CONCLUDE THAT WILLIAM (2) b. 1813 d. 1877 A FORTY PLUS YEAR RESIDENT OF CRAWFORD CO. GA WAS THE SON OF THE REVEREND DAVID THAMES AND WIFE HANNAH.
The deed William Theames to David Theames recorded Cumberland Co. D.B. 20 page 121 is a simple deed of gift “Love and Affection” of 140 acres. There is an exception in the deed for “Rail Timber” to protect Rev. William from some kind of a business deal he must have had with William Berry Grove.It was a common practice of the time to sell or retain timber rights on land. The words “both families” does not appear in this deed.The word son appears only twice, once in reference to David and it appears before his name. The second time it refers to Samuel Thames (the son of Thomas & Prudence Thames) it appears before his name.The letters “sd” meaning said, not son, appear before the name of William Thames the grantor of this deed.
The only documents you need to prove William Thames of Crawford County Georgia as the son of Reverend David Thames is the 1853 sale of land debenture and the 1850 – 1860 Crawford County GA censuses, which proves he was a resident of that county.To claim that the clerks who drew up the debenture did not know him and where he lived is not believable.He served as a juror and paid taxes there for at least fifteen years prior to 1853. To say these clerks did not know where they were and copied the name of Clayton as Crawford is absolutely absurd.Crawford County and Clayton County GA are 100 miles apart. The clerks and the Circuit Judge were knowledgeable people. Anyone who does not agree with assessment should take this information to the Archives in Atlanta GA (as I have done) gather this raw material and ask the Archivist her opinion.
There is NOT ONE, I repeat NOT ONE document that can be produced that shows William (Grandpa Billy) Thames of Fayette/Henry/Clayton County, GA was the son of Reverend David Thames! This claim is bogus.
After that much documentation, to ask the question “which William Thames was a resident of Crawford County GA in 1853 and therefore the son of Reverend David Thames” is tantamount to asking the question “who is buried in Grant’s Tomb”.