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Re: Sons of William SALE & Nancy Ann SHELL, VA & NC, 1700s
Posted by: Becky Smith (ID *****2718) Date: January 07, 2004 at 12:23:46
In Reply to: Re: Sons of William SALE & Nancy Ann SHELL, VA & NC, 1700s by Maria Peay of 1032

Hi, Maria –

Thanks so much for your reply to my GenForum posting on the Sale Family Forum. I was so excited to hear from you!

I guess I will start by telling you what I know, then follow it with what I THINK are valid possibilities.

My great, great grandmother was Mary “Molly” SAYLE, b. 25 December 1843 in TN (I’m assuming in Obion County, TN where her father was an early settler and from where the family moved to northeast TX in 1857). She died 15 October 1888 in TX, almost surely in Hopkins or Hunt Co, TX. She was married to Charles Claiborn CATE and the CATE farm was right on the county line, so it can get a little confusing. They had four children:

William Robert CATE (a doctor) who married Annie E. TITUS; Charles Hida CATE who died at age 25 and probably never married; Edgar Duval CATE who died at age 8; and my great grandmother, Emmagenia Elizabeth “Genia” CATE who married John Henry RAY (they were the parents of my maternal grandmother, Anita RAY).

Mary “Molly” SAYLE’s parents were:

Thomas S. SAYLE, b. 5 Jun 1808 and according to three census records I’ve seen, he was born in KY. Thomas d. 5 Nov 1888 in Cow Hill (now Commerce), Hunt Co, TX.

Thomas married Elizabeth HAYNES, daughter of Henry HAYNES
(I think his name was actually William Henry HAYNES) and Frances LAURENCE. Elizabeth HAYNES was born 12 October 1811 in KY and died 3 July 1862, five years after the move from Obion Co, TN to TX. I believe the middle initial “S” in Thomas’ name is for Samuel.

Thomas S. SAYLE had a doctor cousin, Dr. Samuel SAYLE -- “own cousin to Dr. Sam SAYLE.” I’ve seen the term “own cousin” here and there and was never sure what it meant – perhaps that he was blood relation and not a by-marriage connection?

CHILDREN of Thomas S. SAYLE & Elizabeth HAYNES were:
[All married & had their children in Texas. Robert L. was born in Stoddard Co, MO, all the others in TN.]

(Dr.) Robert L. SAYLE who m. Helena Texana “Texie” KIMBELL

Frances Ann “Fannie” SAYLE who m. Redallium LINDLEY

Susan Elizabeth “Susie” SAYLE who m. Otis E. JENKINS

William Erven “Bill” SAYLE who m. Mary Alice AMOS
[It’s possible that someone confused this William Erven with his grandfather and the AMIS wife for the elder William E. SAYLE could be due to that confusion.]

Mary “Molly” SAYLE (mine) who m. Charles Claiborn CATE

Belle SAYLE m. W.B. KELLUM (no further info on them)

Fennetta “Nettie” SAYLE m. E.H. BRASHEAR (varied spellings)

Delana & Delina, twins b. 1848 in TN; no further info on them.

Thomas’ brother Robert & his wife Frances HAYNES also had daughters named Mary, Fennetta and Susan – so these would appear to be important family names . . .

Thomas S. SAYLE’s parents were:

William Erven SAYLE and (supposedly) “an AMIS.” My cousin Sue has a note that says Thomas’ mother was Hannah. We had thought that meant that her first name was Hannah but it could mean Hannah as a surname. Or it could just be wrong. One thing I’ve thought is that it might be a confusion of generations which happens from time to time – perhaps the reference was to Hannah JONES who married the William SALE who was a son of Cornelius and grandson of the immigrant William. Hannah JONES would have been a grandmother of my Thomas S. SAYLE, rather than his mother. I could easily see how that confusion could have happened. Another cousin is named William Erven SAYLE and he is a descendant of Thomas S. through his son William Erven SAYLE. This cousin has always been told that he was the 10th William Erven SAYLE – perhaps it’s that he’s the 10th (give or take one or two) William but not necessarily with the middle name Erven.

Thomas S. SAYLE had a brother, Robert SAYLE who married Thomas’ wife’s sister, Frances HAYNES. These two HAYNES women were daughters of Henry Haynes (who, as mentioned, I think was actually William Henry HAYNES) and were granddaughters of William HAYNES (married to Mary “Polly” LAURENCE). William HAYNES was born in NC somewhere around 1765 (a guesstimate) and died in 1831 in Hickman Co, KY. Thomas & Robert SAYLE were both at the estate sale. Thomas & Elizabeth would’ve already been married then, and I think Robert & Frances were married about 1824 or 1825, based on birth of first child.

That’s pretty much what I know about my later end of the SALE / SAYLE (so many spelling variations!!) spectrum. I have not yet been able to make a definite connection between the father of my Thomas S. SAYLE and his father and grandfather. I feel that William (possibly with middle name Erven / Erwin / etc.) is the correct name for his father. Now to my various speculations on my SALE / SAYLE connection, clues to my “missing link.” Maybe you can prove or disprove some of them.

I know my Thomas had a cousin (prob. 1st cousin) named Dr. Samuel SAYLE. I believe, but haven’t proven, that this Dr. Samuel SAYLE was Dr. Samuel G. SAYLE who married Olivia Wakefield KING in 1826 in Henderson Co, TN. I have no idea who Dr. Sam G. SAYLE’s parents were. Olivia was born in Orange Co, NC. I don’t have a birthplace for Dr. Sam. They had six children:

Claudius Galon b. 8 Dec 1826 in Carroll Co, TN; m. 3 times, no children of his own. Was a doctor and lawyer in Fresno, CA. I don’t have his wives’ names.

Samuel Algernon b. 1831, m. Mary LILLEY – Her father Noah Lilley was in the same Sumner / Robertson Co, TN area that the HAYNES & LAURENCE families were. AND there was a William SALE / SAIL [with and without an ending “s” and also shown as William SEAL or SEALs there t about the same time.

Corilla Frances b. 1834 in Lexington, Henderson Co, TN; m. William Evander PENN; she d. 23 Sep 1817 in Eureka Springs, Carroll Co, AR. William was a well-known evangelist of the time.

Argyle is found in the Morris Co, TX land records as “Argyle C. SAYLE, League 266” (This is not far from where the LILLEYs settled in what’s now Camp Co, TX.)

Acadius Saul, no further info.

Mary Celista, no further.


Dr. W.A.C. SAYLE b. Sep 1835 in Robertson Co, TN, son of Dr. Cornelius W. (William?) SAYLE and Lucinda ADAMS. The father of Cornelius SAYLE was “a North Carolinian by birth.” (The doctor thing is another commonality among all these SAYLEs.). And his father is the exact right age to be a brother of my Thomas S. & Robert SAYLE. By the way, Thomas also had a son named Robert L. SAYLE who was a doctor. Lucinda ADAMS was a dau. of James ADAMS who would have been born about 1790 (guesstimate) and who was “a pioneer of Robertson Co, TN” and moved in 1844 to MO. James was a farmer of Scots-Irish descent.

Dr. W.A.C. married Lucinda ADAMS on 3 Aug 1830 in Sumner Co, TN.

Dr. W.A.C. attended an estate sale in 1842 in Robertson Co, TN.

My speculation is that the same William SAYLE / SALE / SAIL was father of Dr. Cornelius W.(William?) and my Thomas S. & Robert SAYLE. And that this William had a brother who was the father of Dr. Samuel G. SAYLE. It seems reasonable to me that the use of Samuel as first and middle names would have come from Mary SAMUEL who married Cornelius SALE back in Essex Co, VA in about March 1690.

There’s a similarity of given names in these families that may be significant, although they are fairly common names.

So that brings me to this:

It seems feasible that the William SAYLE / SALE / SAIL who was in TN could be the same William SALE who was a son of William SALE and Nancy Ann SHELL. OR possibly one of his brothers, in particular, Thomas or John, rather than William could be my connection. I have not been able to find much info at all on Thomas or John.

I’m looking for info on those three sons of William SALE & Nancy Ann SHELL, with an emphasis on William, to see if any of them, especially William, may be my missing link.

Thomas, son of Wm & Nancy Ann, would’ve been b. Ca. 1760 and supposedly died after 1800 -- was still in Wilkes Co, NC in 1790 when the census was taken.

John, son of Wm & Nancy Ann – I have only that he would’ve been b. Ca. 1763, Essex Co, VA and that he d. “after 1840.”

I have no idea where either Thomas or John lived after Wilkes Co, NC. Could one of them be the father of Dr. Samuel G. SAYLE who married Olivia Wakefield KING?

William, son of Wm & Nancy Ann – All I have on him is that he was born ca. 1774 in Wilkes Co, NC and died “after 18 Sep 1787” – so it could have been LONG after that.
At least one researcher shows this William married to Mary Elodea TOWNES. I don’t know enough about him to know if that’s correct or not. Some members of this family ended up in Mississippi.

William Seal 000020/10100/1

The following was found at this web site:

Warren Co, NC -- 17 Feb. 1801; Feb. Ct. 1801:

RICHARD FOX of Mecklinburg Co., Va. to HANNAH TOWNS, widow of DAVID TOWNS, dec'd. & at her death to "my near kinsmen", heirs of DAVID TOWNS, dec'd.: (excepting POLLY SALE wife of WILLIAM SALE), SUSANNA, NANCY, EDMUND, SALLY, BETSY & DAVID TOWNS. Gift of a negro he obtained in. management of Est. of DAVID TOWNS, dec'd. Wit: REUBIN PATRICK (Jurat), MAJOR NEAL & JAMES TOWNS. [there’s a 2nd entry about this, not incl. Here.]

[Polly may be a nickname for Mary Elodea (TOWNS) SALE]

I have more information on many of these people, children -- dates, and notes -- than I could include here, so please feel free to ask any questions or make any comments.

I’d like to either confirm or disprove any of my theories on the ancestors of Thomas S. SAYLE, particularly coming to some conclusion as to whether any of the sons of William SALE and Nancy Ann SHELL could be his father.

My biggest question is whether the William SALE who was son of William SALE & Nancy Ann SHELL is or even could possibly be, the father of my Thomas & Robert SAYLE. To ANY suggestion or idea is greatly appreciated! Thanks so much for reading this lengthy email (I will post the info on the SALE Forum, as well).

Becky Smith

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