Re: documentation proving PLEASANT to CHARLES, not William ROGERS! visit my website!
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In reply to:
Re: documentation proving PLEASANT to CHARLES, not William ROGERS! visit my website!
John Thomas 3/01/06
John,
With the new Hickman information, I changed the paragraph to the
following:
Her testimony before the Indian Commission about living several miles
from
Gunter’s Landing in Alabama is also suspect. The Hickman family lived
in
Obion County, Tennessee, on the Mississippi River. According to Bill
Couch’s
information on the Internet at www.couchgenweb.com/family/hick2.htm,
Phebe’s
father, John Asa Hickman, was born in 1792 in North Carolina and died
in
1867 in Obion County. His wife, Edith Smith, was born in 1795 also in
North
Carolina and died in 1873, location not known. Phebe was born in York
County, South Carolina, before her parents moved to Tennessee between
1817
and 1818.
As you know, York County, SC, joins Mecklenburg County, NC, for a short
distance.NC and SC are often confused, especially by non-Southerners
(sort
of like we confuse North and South Dakota).Bill Couch probably has
more on
the Hickmans than what is on the webpage.He may know more about the
NC/SC
issue.It's entirely possible that the Hickmans moved across the state
line
to SC to take up Catawba Indian land, which was cheap at that time.
The
Catawba population was very small and not related to the Cherokees.
I also had to drop the reference in Howard Prather's testimony
regarding the
relationship to Boudinot but added that Howard knew his uncle George.
That
helps tie in the statement in the "Mysteries Abound" paragraph of the
grandchildren knowing who their aunts and uncles were.
You may be correct about William Rogers not being in the War of 1812.
However, I found a William Rogers who served in Capt. Samuel Thompson's
Tennessee militia (his record number is SC-1824).It would have to be
ordered from the National Archives in Washington.I don't think the
file
has family information--only a service record that would say where he
enlisted, give his age, when mustered out, and possibly his death date.
We
would have to locate Samuel Thompson to know if he lived near
Hickman/Humphreys County for the possibility that it was your William
who
served under him.I was interested because three of Chasey Jones
Rogers'
sisters married Thompsons.
With the above changes, we should be nearly finished with "tweaking"
your
article.
Ellen
John,
Unless you know FOR CERTAIN that Sarah Spicer died in 1828, I would say
the
female in Pleasant's household in 1830 was Sarah.Census day was June
1, so
she could well have died soon after that.Pleasant did not marry
Phebe
until a year later.You will see in the article that I have posited a
different explanation for Pleasant's only sister.If you do not agree,
I
will certainly change it.
I found a little more information via the Internet on Cherokee Pleasant
and
his ancestors (although not entirely accurate but close enough to throw
some
doubt).If we knew the names of Cherokee Pleasant's children, it would
solve this whole question.I think the connection between Pleasant and
William/Chasey stands up, because it is backed by the Peck Bible,
census
records, and deeds.The most compelling reason for doubting Howard's
and
Margaret's testimonies is that they knew who their mother's brothers
and
sisters were.These brothers and sisters are documented children of
Carolina Prather and she herself is the documented child of Pleasant
and
Phebe.
After going through all your material, I think Phebe knew a lot about
the
Cherokee Rogers family, because they were all well known in the Nation.
She
married Pleasant when she was young, and although she would have known
William and Chasey, she may have had dementia and remarked one day to
her
children that their father was the son of Charles Rogers.The kids
maybe
took it from there.
Did you know that two more of Caroline's children testified before the
Indian Commission:Georgia Ella Prather Robinson and Thomas Prather?
Maybe
you already had this information, but I found it at
http://groups.msn.com/ReneesGenealogyRoom/pleasantrogers.msnwhttp://groups.msn.com/ReneesGenealogyRoom/pleasantrogers.msnw
The one piece of documentation that would surely help (but we can do
without
it if you don't have it) is the county, book and page number for
William
Rogers' land grant on Tumbling Creek.It would just show that each
piece of
evidence is fully documented.
I will send you a copy of the article in tomorrow's mail.
Ellen
John,
Hope you had a wonderful holiday.It's sort of hard to get back into
normal
routine, isn't it?
I have finished a draft of the article.I will send it to you by US
mail in
a few days to review and make changes.If you would do that in red ink
and
send back to me, I'll make the corrections.If I have any questions
then,
I'll send another final copy for your review.
First, however, I have some questions and some observations:
1.Because we can't explain this, I am leaving out the years that
William
Rogers was listed as a legatee (in right of his wife) when Samuel
Jones's
children sold his land after his death.I'm sure that some of the
other
children had moved from Mecklenburg County, but I haven't found any
powers
of attorney for them authorizing someone to act in their behalf in the
sale
of their father's land.The powers of attorney would have been like
James
and Jones Rogers in Carroll County, TNgiving PofA to Chasey Rogers.
Although the Mecklenburg County Court seemed to be a stickler for doing
everything by the book, I wonder if the legatees somehow got around the
lack
of powers of attorney in those deeds and acted like all of them were
still
residents of the county.
2.Do you know who the female, aged 20-30, was in Pleasant Rogers's
household in the 1830 Hickman County census?Sarah Spicer supposedly
died
in 1828, and Pleasant didn't marry Phebe until Feb. 2, 1831.Maybe
Sarah's
death date was after 6/1830?
3.I am puzzled as to how Chassey Rogers left legacies to two
grandchildren.Either she had a will (not found?) leaving them
bequests, or
her estate was partitioned and their mother, Phebe, had died, meaning
her
children inherited their mother's portion.But Phebe was still alive
in
1859.
4.I've looked for William Rogers in the Mecklenburg County censuses
without success.There is a slight possibility, however, that he,
Jones,
and Chassey were living with the Widow Rogers in the 1800 census.It
appears that two of the widow's children and their families were living
with
her.In the next census, 1810, apparently Thomas and his family had
moved
next door to the widow, leaving one married child and his/her family
staying
with her.But this family had two girls and three boys, whereas
William
would have had only 4 or 5 boys by 1810.That's another avenue to be
explored, but not for this article.
Let me know what you think about item #2 in particular.It would be
nice to
have answers to the other items, but they are not crucial to the
article.
Ellen
I have never bullied anyone but this whole concept of genealogy is the search for the truth. If what is posted is not supported by documents, by official records or anything that can be found by anyone else and they come to the SAME conclusion then it is not the truth. I again say that I have all the documentation to support the above theory. The fun comes from research, investigation and the search for the truth. And I did submit the same material to Ms. Atchley over 50 pages of documents court records, cenus data and land grants. I gave this to her for her to read and decide for herself but I will not stand by and accept incorrect data. I never I repeat never said that she was not a genealogy reseacher just that her conclusion about the parents of Pleasant Rogers is wrong and I again state that she is wrong about his parents. Any researcher can make a mistake but it takes someone who is willing to change the data that makes them good at what they do. I submit the above to anyone who is willing to see that Pheobe Hickman lied to maintain her daughters land in Vinta, Oklahoma which at that time was Indian Territoryand you had to prove you were a descendant to a Native American to remain on it. I do not fault her or Pheobe but we need to change the lie now for future generations. John Thomas
More Replies:
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Re: documentation proving PLEASANT to CHARLES, not William ROGERS! visit my website!
Lisa Groesbeck 3/02/06