Chat
|
Daily Search
|
My GenForum
|
Community Standards
|
Terms of Service
|
|
|
This writer and I have had several email exchanges since this rancor began and while I can say, based on his new information and a census oversight on my part, that I agree with him about Harrison's position in the family, which as he reminded me was my original position, he seems to not understand what a genealogy forum is all about. It is to exchange information and data and sort out fact from fiction just as we have been doing.
I do extremely little speculation on my Polsgrove website. Information there can be corrected easier than here.
However, in our last exchange he presented all over again the "myth" of the Polsgrove migration to Kentucky as though he thought he could sway me into believing it when I have dedicated my interest in Polsgrove genealogy for 35 years to disprove it by replacing it with documents facts.
I wrote him a thorough rebutal and now he has divorced himself from me. Just when I had come to believe him about Harrison.
Win a battle, lose a war.
As I told him, I am as much a "Polsgrove" as he is and he and everyone else will just have to live with that. What no one has to do is believe in family "myths."
I have extracted these following numbered items from the message he wrote to which all this is a reply. His statements are numbered. My statements begin with ANSWER:
1. WILLIAM HARRISON WAS BORN TO ANOTHER WILLIAM HENRY POLSGROVE,who was
born in Pa. circa 1794.
ANSWER: a. This writer is CERTAIN that Henry had a first name "William".
I will believe that when I see an official court or Bible record. It isn't on his tombstone.
b. birthdate was 1784 according to both his tombstone and the 1880 Federal
Census. People, who know more than I do, should be able to find this easily.
He first married Caty Miller ... died somewhere between 1815 & 1818.
ANSWER: I answered this on this Genforum #16 (see copy below)
And the writer has not made any such contention with me on this point.
2. Following the Revolutionary War, Henry would accompany his two brothers,
George and Jacob, into Central Ky.
ANSWER: Henry was 16 in 1800, Jacob was 15 and George was 8 or 6 depending
on the census you read. Their father, Jacob, Sr, was still living and took them there.
3. Henry's wife, Caty, died around 1815 ...
ANSWER: A repeat of the above-(see below)
4. Henry died in 1842 at the age of 58
ANSWER: This date and age is correct, so the "circa 1794" is incorrect by
this writer's own reckoning.
5. ( I will not write this complete article it is lengthy and a certain
individual will rip that info apart because it doesnt conform with his
computer generated info.)
ANSWER: I had already given my interpretation of these particular items
found in these articles. I did all my research in the pre-computer era
the hard way and my many Polsgrove cousins who know me know this for a fact.
When I came on the internet I was aghast at all the false information and general
mistakes that I found here and my efforts have been to correct these.
(which may be correct, but as these people
recording these histories did not have access to computers, they were
handing down info somehow they had gained and in innocence , passing on
as they , then thought it to be true.)
ANSWER: So he is accusing me of getting all my information from computers
and of purposely misguiding everyone to falsehoods--even though what I
report here are recorded facts. He allows only his closest
relatives any room for human error and he allows me none.
....Henry's first marriage was to Caty Miller in 1808.
ANSWER: Again the Caty Miller myth all over again. This time the marriage
is in 1808. She must have been a bad girl (oops! just human error) because
John W. was born in 1807!!!. One gedcom actually put the marriage in Shelby
Co to make it compatible with other myths, but incredibly until I saw this
new date, 1808, the marriage date was the same as the Caty Miller who married
Henry's cousin Henry in Martinsburg, VA.
6. (THESE HISTORIES WERE RECORDED IN 1982-3, BEFORE THIS COMPUTER
GENERATED MIS-INFORMATION TANGLE DEVELOPED OVER WHO THE FATHER OF WILLIAM
HARRISON POLSGROVE WAS.)
ANSWER: Writer said he had a copy of an article I wrote on the same subject
for Campbell, MO, (1978/79) relatives and I found a lot of what I had written previously
in 2 of these articles. Of the five he mentions I had only received partial
copies of two of them, especially the ones that said Harrison was Henry's nephew.
I can be blamed for following this avenue for sure, but not for the scurrilous
act of purposely setting out to disinherit Harrison. As I said in the item to
which this writer's item is a follow-up, he and his Kentucky/Tennessee kin
will have to solve this matter between themselves. He wouldn't be complaining so much about me if he weren't also trying to discredt my efforts to debunk the Polsgrove Migration Move to Kentucky "MYTH." Once again in history the king kills
the messenger. If I had not brought it to this forum many many people may never have
known about it including the writer himself.
7. 2- William Fon Polsgrove
I will only summarize this article as it is filled with what seems now
(with the aid of computer generated info) seems to be false info., starting
with the bit about the 1st Henry being married to Maria Ann Huber,
ANSWER: I showed before how this kind of mistake can happen with no acrimony.
A copy of what I had said is further down this page. But my knowledge of this
came from "groundwork" in LDS genealogy centers and not from the web.
He thinks I only began genealogy on the internet and does not want you to know
I've been at this for 35 years which many of my Polsgrove relatives will affirm as well as his reference to my article of 1978/79 which found it's way into the hands of his relatives in KY before 1982!
I believe he thinks our line is illegitimate and only Harrison's progeny are
legitimate.
"Little George" ( know this will drive one particular computer hacker nuts),
ANSWER: This statement is odious and shows no respect for ancestors.
And I am not a computer hacker--unless he is. I use the computer the same way
he does, but with more facts and less rancor.
serving in the Revolutionary War,
ANSWER: As I said the fomentors of this migration fairy tail killed off Jacob
by having him die on the day of his confirmation (age 18) [taken from a bad transcription of the original church records], and selected one of the brothers
for their reputed ancestor so they could have a RW ancestor. My Polsgrove webpage
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~polsgrove has the records of all three
plus a whole page of copies (.gif copies) of each of their personal requests for
exemptions from previously assigned duties. Go see!!!
the three brothers being born 1771, 1775 and 1784,
ANSWER: don't know by whom or when the first two dates were invented out of thin air,
but 1771 and 1774 are both false as the records from the Federal Censuses clearly
show.
and the whole bit.
ANSWER: So according to the writer, everything I have ever said about anything
affecting any of his fictional notions, none of which are supported by facts that can or
have been documented are falsehoods--with the single exception of Harrison.
8. HERE ARE FIVE LOCAL HISTORIES OF THE POLSGROVES, THREE OF WHICH DEFFINATELY
STATE THAT WILLIAM HARRISON WAS THE SON OF HENRY, ONE THAT I PERSONALLY KNOW
WOULD HAVE SAID THE SAME HAD HE MENTIONED THE NAMES,
ANSWER: I had access to only two of five, partial extracts, from what appears
to have been intentional, sent to misdirect me from the facts.
AND ONE ERROR FILLED REPORT STATING THAT HE WAS A NEPHEW.
ANSWER: Besides the other errors which he himself mentions in the excerpts he
has put here and obviously the one that misled me.
SUM: What this all does is PROVE my contention that only documented factual
material has a right to be included in a GEDCOM and, for history, a differentiation
must be made in the context of the discourse between what is documented fact and
what is fancy.
Never could figure out the thinking of people who can look right at facts and still believe a myth.
John Bristol
==========================================================================
CATY (MILLER) POLSGROVE MYTH
Posted by: john bristol Date: May 20, 2000 at 20:49:09
16 of 130
5-20-00 The Caty Miller Myth:
By John Bristol
For years members of this family have claimed that Caty Miller of Martinsburg, Virginia, was
the first wife of Henry Polsgrove of Hickman County, Kentucky. The purpose of this article is to
dispel this myth once and for all.
Caty Miller is named in her father’s will, 9-24-1798, at Berkeley Co., VA, (now W. VA.),
daughter of Phillip and Molly Miller. As he had step-daughters, Molly was probably a 2nd wife.
Caty Miller married Henry Paultsgrove, 9-13-1804, (bonded), Suretor was Peter Shaffer,
#26243.
They had a daughter, Nancy, and a son, Joseph. Henry Paultsgrove was suretor to marriage of
Rebecca Miller and Jacob Westenhaver, md. 10-09-1805, #3b1, cr 28, mr 22.
Henry Pulsgrove was in the 1810FC Berkley Co. #593, and Henry Palsgrove was in the
1820FC, Berkeley Co.: Males– +45, 1; -16, 1; -10, 1. Females: +45, 1; 26-45, 1, and -16, 1.
I don’t know who was the female 26-45, but the -10 was Nancy and the son, -16, was Joseph. I
have no name for the son, -10.
Joseph Paultsgrove was suretor for the marriage of Nancy Paultsgrove to Mose Schoppert,
3-25-1830, Berkeley co., #5b130, mr 63.
This Henry was a son of George 2nd of Berks Co., PA, born 3-28-1774. His son Joseph appears
in the 1830FC, as Paultsgrove, Berkeley Co, and possibly removed after that to Warren Co.,
MO, where a Joseph Palsgrove appears in the 1840FC and again in the 1850FC in Warren Co.,
MO, as Pallsgrove. There is a Henry there also as Pallsgrove, and another Henry Paltscraft, in
St Louis, 1850FC, this one probably another family altogether.
CONCLUSIONS: No reason for Caty to go to Pendleton Co., KY, when she had a husband
already in Martinsburg, VA. I wonder what her descendants are going to say when they discover
this fiction! Henry of Hickman Co., KY, was in Pendleton Co., Ky, in 1810 and in Henry Co.,
KY, in 1820. An examination of the census records of Berkeley Co., will no doubt show that
Caty was over there and not in Kentucky in 1820. Henry of Hickman was already married to
Nancy Lewis (1818). He would have to have shown two wives to somebody. It seems to me as
well that if someone were to search Berkeley Co., W. Va., records more carefully, they will find
out when Henry and Caty died and finally this myth will be put to rest.
The clue to the confusion is the spelling of the name Polsgrove. This is why researchers
couldn’t find continuity on this Henry of Berkeley and jumped to conclusions about Caty.
We all make mistakes, but our errors must give way to truth.
I wish you all well in your endeavors and I hope this basic articles will have been of help.
5-20-00
======================================================================
Re:HENRY PALSGROVE: Berkeley Co, VA
Posted by: John Bristol Date: June 19, 2000 at 17:29:47
In Reply to: CATY (MILLER) POLSGROVE MYTH by john bristol 26 of 130
6-19-00
Continued investigation into this family shows that Henry of BERKELEY CO., VA, bought land in Warren Co, MO, 7-1-1748, and Henry Palsgrove of Warren Co, MO bought land in Warren Co., MO in 1841. These properties are either adjacent to or quite close to each other, so the land records reveal who the Henry was I referred to in the first letter on this topic.
If someone can locate and read the 1850 FC tape, and if Caty was still alive, then we can put the myth to rest once and for all.
John Bristol
=====================================================================
The "GENEALOGY" of ERROR
Posted by: John Bristol Date: September 14, 2000 at 16:40:02
72 of 130
9-14-00
The Following Article, with [my] NOTES, is given here to illustrate how incomplete information can lead to erroneous assumptions which then lead to false conclusions. The document was published in a book about families of Fulton Co., KY.
POLSGROVE FAMILY:
The original Polsgrove in America was Jorg Pfalzgraf, who came from Germany. [NOTE: Maybe from Alsace-Lorraine, France]. He sailed from Rotterdam, Holland on the ship Pennsylvania Merchant and arrived in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania in August 1732. He married Maria Ann Huber,
[NOTE: He married Anna Maria Barbara Kamm/Kamp. How did anyone come to believe that George married his son's wife? If you go to "familysearch.org" and type in "Henry Palsgrove" you will get something like this:
FamilySearch(r) Ancestral File(tm) v4.19
Henry PALSGROVE (AFN: 9NX0-LN) Sex: M
Event(s): Birth: 14 May 1755 , New Hanover Twp, Philadelphia Co, Pa
Christening: 17 Jun 1755 Fsrc, New Hanover Twp, Philadelphia Co, Pa
Death: 15 Feb 1838, New Hanover Twp, Montgomery Co, Pa
Burial: Feb 1838, Fsrc Cem, New Hanover Twp, Montgomery Co, Pa
Parents: Father:
George PFALTZGRAFF (AFN: 9NZT-TF)
Marriage(s):
Spouse: Anna Marie HUBER (AFN: 9NX0-MT)
Marriage: 15 Jan 1782 Fsrc, New Hanover Twp, Montgomery Co, Pa
As you can see from this, if someone is not VERY familiar with the way Family Search presents information, it is almost impossible to avoid making mistakes. I have made one or two right on this forum because of this.] and they [NOTE: Jorj and Barbara (Kamm)] had three sons: Jacob, George, and Henry. Jorg died in 1757. Henry and little [NOTE: This is only a personal opinion, but it seems to me demeaning to refer to someone as "little" anything] George fought in Captain Benjamin Markley's Pennsylvania Militia during the Revolutionary War. [NOTE: Jacob also served in the same Company, each one in a different Class, with his brothers--as you can find elsewhere on this forum. Why not mention him? Because, he was dismissed as a possible ancestor of Kentucky Polsgroves before all the facts were in. Even though others had the facts, the writer did not know it at the time. Also, everyone wants to have a Rev. War ancestor, so the temptation always exists to grab the next nearest one, if the one you're looking for doesn't seem to be there. This is an almost fatal error for people who later submit documentation for membership in societies who can then refuse membership because of conflicting representations of the people involved.]
In the period 1790 to 1798 three brothers moved from Philadelphia to Franklin County, Kentucky. [NOTE: The three brothers, Henry, Jacob and George, were, in 1794, aged 10, 9 and new-born, respectively. It can hardly have been so that "they" moved. Their father and mother made the first move in 1784 to West Va. And by 1800 to Scott Co., KY.]We don't know which of the sons of Jorg was their father, [NOTE: Some of us did know that the father was JACOB, b. 1748] but the three sons Jacob (1771-1861)[NOTE: This Jacob was born in 1785, by his own mouth in the 1850 and 1860 Federal Cencuses of KY], Henry (1784-1842) and George (1775-1861) [NOTE: Another message on this forum by Sharon Dolan says that George left KY in 1852 and moved to Missouri and in 1865 moved again to Oregon. How is it he died in 1861?] settled in an area north of Frankfort on the Kentucky River, that today is still known as Polsgrove Landing. [NOTE: One family source says Jacob was there first, another, by an historian, says George was there first. Philip Huffman, son-in-law of Jacob, father and pioneer, was there in 1809 and Henry was there in 1811.] Several Polsgroves still live there, and there is a "Polsgrove Methodist Church" at the landing. In 1826, the younger [NOTE: By every available record, military, marriage, census and tombstone, Henry was the oldest brother] brother Henry received a land grant in Hickman County Kentucky. He and his family moved there. The place he settled is the present day John Marshall Alexander Place on the Middle Road, west of four points. Henry is buried in the woods out there and his tombstone is still quite legible.
His nephew was William Harrison Polsgrove. [NOTE: This statement needs to be in all CAPITAL letters as it is further confirmation from the Kentucky side that Harrison was Henry's nephew and not his son] Harrison had four children: John, George Montreville, Abner S. [NOTE: This name also needs to be all capitalized because it proves that the family knew him as Abner and not "ALBERT" in spite of what the 1850 and 1860 cenuses say] and William Henry. William Henry was the father of Almus Walker who was the father of Mary Lee Polsgrove.
Meanwhile the Henry Polsgrove buried on the Alexander Place had a son named John W. Polsgrove [NOTE: This John W. was probably named after John Wilson who married Henry's sister Catherine in 1804](1807-1852). Both John and his wife died in 1852. They left behind a son Edmund Perry [NOTE: An Edmund Perry lived in Pendleton Co, Ky as well as a William Harrison. John W. had a brother Nathaniel who was probably named after Nathaniel Brown who married Henry's other sister Mary] Polsgrove, born July 12, 1836.
I had written a similar article for inclusion in the Campbell (Area) History Book, ca 1982, in which I also had made errors which I have corrected in PUBLIC view on this forum. The forum is a good place to bring these issues to the front before "going to press" with books or gedcoms which perpetuate the errors whether intentionally or not.
A lot of activity is now going on among the "legitimate" descendants on the Palsgrove forum and elsewhere and it will soon become clear to all that George-2, brother of Jacob-2, our ancestor, was not our ancestor. He did not bring three young boys to VA and KY in the 1790's. He was very busy back in PA with his own family.
John Bristol
Followups:
|
| http://genforum.genealogy.com/polsgrove/messages/132.html | ||
 |
Agreement of Use Link to GenForum Add Forum |
|