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Info Sources: Austro-Hungarian, Czech, Slovak
Posted by: Felix Unger Date: January 10, 2002 at 14:25:52
In Reply to: Istvan [Stephen] Pataki, b. 1823 by Robert Hanscom of 11

Robert:

Have you posted this on the HUNGARY and GREECE forums as well ? Go there and read the postings that discuss general sources of statistical info (births, marriages, deaths, etc.). There is lots of good stuff to read.

Keep in mind that Hungary and the current Slovakia [recently split off from Czechoslovakia] were all part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire during Istvan's time. I would also suggest reading the info on the AUSTRIA and SLOVAKIA forums, and even on the CZECH REPUBLIC forum. This whole area has seen borders shifted and changed about 5 times since Istvan was born. Sometimes placenames changed two or three times in one decade, depending on who was ruling the district.

Try some of the following general info sources:

I found this expression - "Jaj, egy masik buszke Magyar paraszt." "Oh, another proud Hungarian peasant".

- http://www.lib.utexas.edu/Libs/PCL/Map_collection/ - University of Texas at Austin - extensive collection of MAPS OF THE WORLD showing all historical, ethnic, religious, political, military periods for MOST PARTS of the WORLD - excellent visual displays of CHANGES OF BOUNDARIES, BORDERS, and FRONTIERS resulting from wars and treaties, changing alliances, emigration and immigration of peoples (EXAMPLE: great visual explanation of constantly shifting borders, movements of people, and shifting ethnic patterns in EASTERN and CENTRAL EUROPE)

Versuchen sie mal: - http://www.babelfish.altavista.com - Check this out for translation from German to English, or English to German.

MAJOR INFO SOURCE: - http://www.oesta.gv.at/engdiv/geneal.htm - Austrian State Archives (in Vienna) with LINKS to:

1. Internet Guides (WebSites about Genealogical Research)
2. The Genealogy Home Page
3. AustriaGenWeb
4. Genealogy in Austria and in countries of the former Habsburg monarchy
5. Institut für Historische Familienforschung (Institute for Historical Family Research) (IN GERMAN)
6. Libraries in Austria
7. Address list of archives in Austria

Before WW I Hungary was divided into 76 megye (counties) and its territory stretched from modern Hungary to modern Romania. After WW I, the peace treaty of 1920 caused Hungary to lose two-thirds of its former territory (see also CROATIA/YUGOSLAVIA).

The site - http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/vmlista.htm - has (at the very bottom) a map showing all the counties in the Old Kingdom of Hungary. You can see a 1910 map of the counties at the same site.

Hungarian Village Finder for the Kingdom of Hungary - http://www.hungarianvillagefinder.com -

MAJOR INFO SOURCE: - The 1828 Hungarian Census is (the only one ?) available on microfilm to date. Keep track of the house numbers with the families you are researching from the church records, then check them against the 1828 Hungarian Census. This census listed the house numbers, and the names of the occupants in the village - a marvelous resource ! At first, the numbers were assigned to the houses as they were built; so 196 would not necessarily be next to 197. Today the system is similar to most other countries. You will find the Residence # to be a very good way of finding family names in the records. Scan the records and look for the info you want !

Besides the 1828 Census, there was also one for 1869. For Damoc, Zemplen Megy, there was even an 1857 Census. This was very good because it contained the maiden name of the wife, year of birth, the names of all the children and their years of birth. It was an extremely helpful census to work with.

The 1900 Census for Austria-Hungary can give you information on the number of children, how long they have been in the country, years married, etc. You need to get a precise birth location if possible. If you don't know this, get the estimated date your ancestors sailed to North America, then search the passenger lists for the boats. This is very hard work. Once you find them on a passenger list, it will then tell you where in Hungary they came from (town, county) and usually where they are going. Once you know this, you could probably find the LDS microfilms for the birth and marriage records for their town.

Federation of East European Family History Societies (FEEFHS)
P. O. Box 510898, Salt Lake City, Utah 84151-0898 - THE Pioneer Web Portal for Central and East European Genealogy since May 1995 - FEEFHS RESOURCE GUIDE, FEEFHS INTERNET JOURNAL, and FEEFHS RESEARCH LIBRARY - The entire web portal is Š Copyright 1999 by FEEFHS, all rights reserved.

East European Maps - http://feefhs.org/maps/indexmap.html -

- http://feefhs.org/ah/indexah.html - A major website for INFO on POLAND, HUNGARY, SLOVENIA, GALICIA, CZECH REPUBLIC, SLOVAKIA, BUKOVINA, BANAT Genealogy Listserver (for Hungary, Romania, Serbia, Croatia), TRANSYLVANIA

- http://feefhs.org/ah/gal/bookrev.html - Pradziad "Ancestor" Databases Now in Book Form "in Ten Polish Words or Less" - A Book Review by Gayle Schlissel Riley

- http://feefhs.org/ah/gal/update-1.html - Records from Halic (Galicia) area of present-day Poland in the days of the Austria-Hungary when it was part of the A-H Empire.

MAJOR INFO SOURCE: - German Genealogy Home Page - http://www.rootsweb.com/~wggerman/ - Click on map of Germany's 16 Bundesländer (states) and German areas in 7 other countries. Find that elusive ancestor in Germany - a good German research site, also for other countries where German language and influence were prevalent (example: Austro-Hungarian Empire before World War I, also modern Switzerland, Austria, Luxembourg, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Poland)

The Banat was made up of parts of the Hungarian counties of Temes, Torontol, and Krasso-Szereny.

- http://www.feefhs.org/banat/frgbanat.html -
- http://www.feefhs.org/banat/bdb/townban.html -
- http://german.genealogy.net/gene/reg/ESE/dsinfo.htm -

The above sites concentrate primarily on the German settlers (1748-1835) in the Banat area, formerly part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and now divided among Romania, Yugoslavia and Hungary.

There is a mailing list - BANAT-L - for those doing research in the Banat region of what was formerly Hungary. To subscribe, send email to: - banat-l-request@rootsweb.com -

MAJOR INFO SOURCE: - http://www.radixindex.com - As of 1 February 2000, visit the Radix site. Janos Bogardi, who maintains it, has a wealth of useful information, links and services. Bookmark it and visit it frequently. When complete in 2000, Janos Bogardi expected to have some 380,000 records in the database. You can also get these documents from the FHC (Family History Center) of your local Mormon Church.

There was a census done in 1891 to document labor/craftsman. The RADIX webpage - http://www.radixindex.com - by Janos Bogardi lists craftsmen and shopkeepers in Hungary in 1891, according to the national census. There are both accented and non-accented surname lists. NOTE: the book does not have a personal name index. The book gives its names in the alphabetical order of professions, then by alphabetical names of cities and towns. Thus, even if somebody knows the place of origin of his researched person, now knowing his profession would force him to check all the professions.

This is a really valuable resource, because genealogy research materials in some of the successor states are either non extant, destroyed, damaged or simply not accessible because of lack of archival control or because of restrictions on use. You can click to see a sample page from the book. The profession name is given in Hungarian, Slovak, German, and French.

Embassy of the Republic of Hungary
3910 Shoemaker St. NW
Washington D.C. 20008
TEL: (202) 362-6730
FAX: (202) 966-8135

Know exactly what it is you are looking for, otherwise you will most likely get "the runaround". Try to time your call when the rates are cheapest from your area, because you're likely to spend a good amount of time "on hold".

MAJOR INFO SOURCE: - "Hungarian Genealogy" by Nagy Iván and Magyar Nemzetségi Zsebkönyve.

"The Families of Hungary" has one page about the Kenessey noble family. Order the CD at - http://sphosting.com/hungencd - for "Families of Hungary" by Iván Nagy, 1857 Edition, gives the noble provenance and towns, etc. of many Hungarian noble names. Nagy Iván's work's lengthy full title is "Magyarország Családai Czímerekkel és Nemzékrendi Táblákkal". It runs to _? volumes plus a supplement. Use it along with the map - http://www.mapquest.com - to help locate where your family (may have) lived. NOTE: This book contains only aristocratic families and is in Hungarian !

FLASH !!! Zoltan Kosztolanyi said in 2001: You can now buy the "Hungarian Genealogy" books on CD-ROM. This is the "Families of Hungary" by Nagy Iván, with family crest and trees originally published in Pest between 1857 and 1868 in 13 volumes. The CD-ROM contains 6,500 pages of text, 550 crests, 3,700 family trees and more than 10,000 family details. The books were republished in a facsimile edition in Budapest in 1988; with this new CD, the research will be much quicker and easier. A knowledge of Hungarian is required. If anyone is interested in this CD just drop me a line for details of the Budapest based publisher. NOTE: This book contains only aristocratic families and is in Hungarian !

"Noble Families of Hungary" by Bela Kempelen, Budapest, ca 1910 (? "Magyar Nemes Csaladok" in *Magyar/*Hungarian) is available on microfilm through the Mormon Family History Center. It has a paragraph or two on most noble families and sometimes includes a description of the family's coat of arms.

"Orszagos Leveltar"(OL), or "Noble Certificates: The Book of Kings" by Béla Kempelen, will be published soon on CD-ROM.

Eötvös György is a partner and managing director of Családfa (Family Tree), a professional genealogy company in Budapest, Hungary. The web address is - http://www.familytree.hu - and his e-mail address is - origins@familytree.hu -

NTC's HUNGARIAN and ENGLISH Dictionary by Tamás Magay and László Kiss, NTC Publishing Group, 4255 West Touhy Avenue, Lincolnwood (Chicago), Illinois 60646-1975. Cost is US$20şş+.

The U.S. Army Hungarian Phrase Book of the 1950's is the best. Its pronunciation guides, based on American English phonetics, are superior to those of similar books published in Hungary. It contains about 50% military terms - not all that useful these days.

- http://www.starlap.com - on-line Anglo-Hungarian Dictionary - follow "Szótár", select "angol-magyar", then write in the word you want.

- http://www.bmi.net/jjaso/ - URL with a guide to translations in Hungarian, Latin, and Slovak church records.

- http://www.bmi.net/jjaso/index.html - gives examples of marriage, death, and baptism registers in Magyar and Latin. Not every register was the same, so you need to adapt it to yours, just using the context of what is in the columns.

You can also try to use the following online-dictionary - http://www.sztaki.hu/services/engdict/ -

In church "anyakonyv" (register), births were recorded until at least the early 1940's in the Magyar fashion with the Father's name "es neje" = "and wife", giving the wife's maiden name.

Birth, Death and Marriage Records from 1866 to 1895 are available for the Presbyterian (Református) Church records in Balsa, Szabolcs megye (county). Go to the nearest Mormon Family Library Center and ask for film Number 632124.

The Greek Orthodox (Görög Katolikus) Church records are available from 1813 to 1895 in LDS/FLC Film Number 601578.
_________________________________________________

Some samples of sites for MAPS (substitute your "megye" [county] for the one here):

Maps from Vas megye (County):

1. Beginning of the 20th century:
- http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/vas.jpg -

2. Beginning of the 21th century:
http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/hunkarta/varme/vas/vas.gif -

Ujfalu means "New Village". Abauj-Torna Megye is a former Hungarian County (Megye) now mostly in Slovakia. You can find Abaujszanto in the southern part of the county on the map of Abauj-Torna at - http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/abauj-t.jpg -

Tolcsva, Zemplen-Megy - http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/zemplen.jpg - and see an old map of Zemplen County that shows the village of Tocsva and Vamosujfalu just west of the town of Sarospatak, in the center of the yellow section of the map.

Göncruszka was in Abauj-Torna megye (county) of old Hungary, járás (district) of Gönc. It is still in Hungary today, located northeast of Miskolc near the Slovakian border.

- http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/ung.jpg - the town of Csicser in the SW-corner of the Ung megye (county) is now Cicavorce in Slovakia. The ung.jpg file is 611 k and it takes a little time to download.

"Zepeš" refers to the former county, now in Slovakia, that was called Szepeš by Magyar-speakers and Spis' by Slovaks. It's also possible, but less likely, that it refers to the town of Spis'ska' Nova Ves (= Spis' New Town). Regarding the different spellings of the surname: Szarna would be the Magyar version, which would become Sarna in English, Latin, or Slovak. Pavlik would appear to be a Slovak or Rusyn surname, derived from the first name Pavel = Paul.

See Hobgart on the old map of Spiš (Magyar: Szepeš) county at: - http://lazarus.elte.hu/hun/maps/1910/szepes.jpg - Hobgart became Chmelnica, today known as "Chmel'ov", which is 30 km NE of Presov town. Chmel'nica today is just 4 miles from the Polish border. In Slovak, the word "chmel'" means hops, the bitter herb used to flavor beer. Hobgart is the German version of the name and means "hops garden." Near the top of the map, just east of O'lublo', the Magyar name for Stara' L'ubovn'a is shown with the Magyar name Komloskert. "Komlos" means 'hops' in Magyar, and "kert" means 'garden'.

Many Hungarians emigrating to America left from the port of Bremen, in Germany on the Neckar River. Some went from Hamburg, and others from ports in Italy (Genoa - or Trieste while it was still part of Austria-Hungary).

- http://www.rootsweb.com - the Banat Ship Lists give the passengers listed by alphabetical order and by city. Type in the first letter [or two or three] of the last name.
___________________________________________________________________

And for CZECH REPUBLIC and SLOVAKIA:

Families often immigrated from Poland over the Border to Moravia in the Czech Republic (Czechoslovakia). Many people and families living in Slovakia or Poland moved later to America. This happened in two phases. The first phase started about 1770's in Northern Hungary (today's Slovakia) where there was a lot of land and few farmers. Many families from Moravia and Bohemia moved to Slovakia, and to Galicia, Southern Poland, after the 1780's. The second phase was after 1848, during the Industrial Revolution in the area around Krakow, Ostrava and Prerov, when the railway was built from Wien to Krakow (North Ferdinand Railway). In this era many families from here moved to Poland, and some of them moved to America during and after the 1870's.

Paula Parker - ninja_mom@hotmail.com - says a researcher who works at the Archives in Prague charges US$10şş an hour. She is VERY thorough. Her name and address are:

Hana Skockova
Psohlavcu 19,
14700 Praha 4,
Czech Republic

- http://www.seznam.cz - website of Altavista - maps of Czech Republic. Czech(oslovakia) belonged previously to the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

- http://www.rootsweb.com/~easeurgw/index.htm - EastEuropeGenWeb

- http://www.spacestar.com/users/hapander/burgen.html - or also -
http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/Austria/Burgenland - Burgenland Bunch is a great place for your research. Although a person once lived in Austria, they originated in Poland (Galacia, for example), Hungary, or elsewhere inside or outside the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

Look at - http://www.kosice.sk/ - Kosice, the capital of Eastern Slovakia.

Sušice near Prachatitz in Southern Bohemia (English pronounciation something like "SOO-sheet-say" [the second "š" with the famous Czech "Hatschek" on it] in German is "Schüttenhofen", near the former Austrian border, but now it's in the Czech Republic.

Under - Maps@iarelative.com - find geographic features, populated places, and administrative place names in Slovakia. It does NOT list all variant place names of the past, nor does it feature all variant spellings of a location. Even with these shortcomings, it is a handy reference that will eventually hyperlink all names listed to a 1:250,000 map of Slovakia circa 1944 by the Defence Mapping Organization. Until hyperlinks are added, the geographic location of each name is given in degrees, minutes, and seconds of latitude and longitude along with a reference to the segment of the 1944 map series the location points to. When completed, it will also link to sites on the internet that can provide background history of the place names that in some cases will also included photographs of the area and other related information including known surnames from the area and family histories.

MAJOR INFO SOURCE: - "Czech Immigration Passenger Lists" - see CZECH REPUBLIC postings # 2258, 2108, etc. - "Czech Immigration Passenger Lists" by Leo Baca is made up of eight books. The Genealogy Library in Paso Robles, California has seven of the eight books in Leo's series. In July 2000 Volume 4 was revised (one printing had left out about 19 pages, and Leo also found some more lists), Volume 8 was new, and Volume 1 was in the process of being revised, so was not available. Great source of info to find ships, date of entry and location. This source can sometimes help to detail the ship's crossings and perhaps find a rare photo of it. Gary Cejka - cejkas@skywizard.com - says he has all 8 volumes.

- dave@hanush.com - In August, 2000 a special Czech & Slovak Genealogy Discussion Group was started, in San Luis Obispo County in California. If you are interested in meeting with this group, or would like to find out more about it, contact Dave Hanush. The purpose of the discussion group will be to share research ideas, finds and breakthroughs, as well as to provide assistance to others who are also interested in Czech and Slovak lands.

Marriage records from the 1800's are in marriage parish books in the archives in Prague, but parish books were written in church, where the couple were married. For somebody to find this record, he has to know the name of the city of village where they were married and some more information (example: was he/she Roman Catholic ?). These marriage records are NOT in electronic form.

Pozsony, Hungary in 1911 is now Bratislava, capital of Slovakia. Pozsony or Bratislava used to be the capital of Hungary, but it wasn't really Hungarian. It was rather German or Slovakian.

MAJOR INFO SOURCE: - http://www.tccweb.org/ - The Carpathian Connection has the Census of 1858 with surnames found at specific house numbers.

The problem tracking name changes originated from the medieval feudal system. Lords built homes for the vassals. The home took the name of the original occupants. If they died, the next occupant took the "house name". If an individual child married and lived in the spouse's home, he also took the name of the house. These "house names" in some cases are still used in some small villages and even people in the same village do not know their neighbors by their original surnames. Because of that, some families have lost contact with other members completely, even though they may live just a few miles from one another. In many old Hungarian records, even in the late 1800s, you will find "house numbers" listed so that they can be attached to the "house name" history. Research the history of "house names" and it will be very enlightening.

For an entire page devoted to the village of Maly Lipnik (among others in that region) go to - http://www.tccweb.org/maly.htm - on that page, and all the other ones, find surnames in the village of Udol which is not far from Maly Lipnik, and, in Maly Lipnik, surnames in the Census of 1858 of those who resided at specific house numbers.

MAJOR INFO SOURCE: - Please visit and sign the Soltis Family Tree Registry located at - http://www.wnature.com/SOLTIS/registry - and post the surnames you are researching in the 'comments' area. This will allow others who visit to possibly assist you in your search for your family roots.

Info on Hungarian families from areas now in the Slovak Republic may sometimes be found by writing to:

State Regional Archives
Banska Bystrica,
Sladkovicova cislo 1,
974 05 Banska Bystrica,
Slovak Republic

You may find 4 or more generations. Research can be expensive (one person reported costs of US$325şş). Two tiny towns in this area were Meliata and Sankovcie.


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