Re: Nicholson Families of Culpeper and Madison Counties in Virginia
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In reply to:
Nicholson Families of Culpeper and Madison Counties in Virginia
Douglas Beahm 2/05/03
OK, I guess I’m game:
Douglas,
Thank you for your posting, you make some good points.Thanks for sharing the discovery you made yesterday about the 1765 Orange County record.I’d like to address some of your assertions and then add some more info - just to muddy up the water!
Please forgive me if I have misunderstood you, but I interpret the following from your posting:
1 - You suggest that the William Nicholson who was on the 28 Mar 1748/49 survey may never have existed, and may simply have been a mistake that was meant to read “Thomas Nicholson.”After reading the records, I too came to the same conclusion some time ago, and believe it is a good chance that it is simply a mistake that got started back in the 1734 land survey for Berryman.I shared this idea with other researchers.In fact I suggested this in a letter I sent to Charles Perdue back on June 2, 2001.So you won’t get any argument from me on this one, but I’m open minded here, as we really have no certain proof that it was a mistake.
2 - You say that we have no proof that a William Nicholson was the father of William Nicholson (-aft 1802) and John Nicholson (-1810).Yes, I agree with you that we have no proof.In fact I think we all have to agree that when it comes to figuring out the Nicholsons back to the mid-1700's, we are dealing (as of yet) in speculations.(Of course, sometimes it is good to speculate, because that can occasionally lead a researcher to more proof.)I have always felt that the idea that a William Nicholson was the father of William Nicholson (-aft 1802) and John Nicholson (-1810) was something I’d catagorize as “speculation” and was very far from being any thing close to proof.
Along these lines, I’d add the following: If “William” was suppose to be “Thomas” on the land records, then that diminishes the speculation that a William Nicholson was the father of William Nicholson (-aft 1802) and John Nicholson (-1810).But this speculation was also based on the fact that a William Nicholls showed up on a deed concerning headrights - William Nicholls is on a list of immigrants from Great Britain to Orange County dating to 17 Mar 1735.What is of interest here is that William Nicholls is on the list of immigrants adjacent to a John Latham.On 9 Aug 1735 a John Latham is granted 600 acres in Orange County “adj.....Thomas Stonehouse...corner to Nicholsons...on the Hasel River.”And then I’m not sure if I have this original, (I’m not digging through my boxes now), but in my notes I see there was a record from 10 Dec 1747 that refers to “land formerly granted to John Latham and William Nickelson of Whitehaven.”(?)I realize that this is no proof one way or another, but it makes me wonder if there was a connection between John Latham and the William Nicholls on the list of immigrants.
- You state that Nicholson was a pretty common name and there are other Nicholsons in the area.You offer the John Nicolas, Nickleson, Nicholason, etc., who shows up on the Orange County tithables through the 1760's as though he has nothing to do with the Nicholsons you are researching, but I would make the point that this John Nicholson is likely related to (at least) William Nicholson (-aft 1802).
I think I can make a pretty good case for the assertion that this John Nicholson of Orange County was the father of the branch of Nicholsons who settled down on the Clinch River in SW VA around 1770.(This John is too old to pay taxes down in SW VA by 1786.)I have lots of records to back up this assertion.
Moreover, I feel I can prove 100% that the Nicholsons who lived down on the Clinch from around 1770 to 1790, were in Orange County before going to the Clinch, and were related to the Nicholsons of Culpeper, and were closely connected to the Greens and Brownings (the same Green and Browning families that were mentioned on William Nicholson’s 1794 Culpeper County land record.)
The Benjamin Nicholson who married Elizabeth Shackleford in Culpeper on 4 Dec 1792 eventually moved to Woodford County, KY.The descendants of this Nicholson family met up in KY with the descendants of the Nicholsons who went to SW VA around 1770 and then on to Jessamine County, KY in the 1780's-1790.I descend from the SW VA Nicholsons and I have an old letter passed down from my great aunt that speaks of the descendants of the Nicholson/Shackleford union as kin.
Basically what I’m getting at is that if you want to speculate about the Nicholsons before the end of the 1700's, you have to take a look at the branch that went to SW VA and on to KY.
You also need to understand that the land of John Nicholson of Orange County in the 1760's was in fact at the “head of the Hawkesbill River,” and references to it show up in both Frederick County deeds as well as Orange County deeds.After careful study of the land records, I believe John Nicholson’s land straddled the Blue Ridge and was located only about 4 miles west of Old Rag Mountain.Now I realize that during the 1760's, that area was not a part of Orange County, but was between Frederick and Culpeper.(This land was a couple miles north of the northen tip of present-day Green County which was then a part of Orange County.)I know this may sound hard to believe, but after much study, I have come to the conclusion (as have other researchers) that during the 1700's, some people with land in that area along the Blue Ridge did not know for certain which county their land was in, or just went the county seat that was closer, or for some reason went to Orange instead of Frederick or Culpeper countyseat.My point being that John Nicholson of Orange County owned land in the 1760's that was a lot closer to the Culpeper/Madison Nicholsons than you might think - thus they are more likely to be related.And this John Nicholson of Orange got around - he was on a road order for 1760, Orange County, way over by “Wilderness Bridge to Germanna Ford.”It’s likely the same John Nicholson because he is on this road order right next to Mungo Price - a man who had land adj. to John Nicholson on the head of the Hawkesbill.
OK now along these lines, I’ll add some additional thoughts to get things even more stirred up.
Some tine ago I came up with the idea Thomas the mariner from Whitehaven never really settled permanently on his land in VA.(I first shared this idea with Charles Perdue in a letter of 22 April 1999.)This led me back to another search of the Whitehaven Nicholsons.There were several Thomas Nicholsons from Whitehaven in the 1700's, but I came to the conclusion that the Thomas Nicholson of Whitehaven, Quaker, who married Mary Sargent (as published in Nigel Nicholson’s book)was one and the same as the Thomas Nicholson, mariner who got the 1,000 acres in VA in 1732.You can do a search on the rootsweb mailing list for the name Nicholson and see my posting there from back on 18 April 2000 where I talk about how I came to this conclusion.(Put “Sargent” in the search for the year 2000.)At first some people got mad at me for posting this because they did not believe it to be true, however as more documents came to light, most people now agree that Thomas the Quaker who married Mary Sargent was the same man who got the 1,000 acres in VA in 1732.
According to Nigel’s book the English Thomas Nicholson and Mary Sargent never had a son William, so some researchers have sort of forgotten about Thomas Nicholson and Mary Sargent.However, I am not so ready to throw the baby out with the bath water.I still think Thomas and Mary Sargent are somehow linked to the later VA Nicholsons, even if not directly.
First of all, Nigel Nicholson’ book is not documented.I have gone back to look into the original English records and have found mistakes in the family tree of Thomas Nicholson and Mary Sargent that is published in Nigel Nicholson’s book.Secondly, there is the possibility of illegitimate children born in VA who kept the Nicholson name, but might not show up in the English family tree.(As far as I know, no one has located any birth records that list Thomas Nicholson and Mary Sargent’s children - the Quaker records are not complete.)
I realize that this is all speculation, and you might ask, why even bother to try to link Thomas Nicholson, Quaker, of Whitehaven to the Nicholsons of the later 1700's.Here are some reasons:
Besides the close proximity of the land owned by the later Nicholsons, the Thomas Nicholson who got the 1,000 acres in 1732 is connected on documents to some of the same families that eventually are connected to the Nicholsons of SW VA at the end of the 1700's such as the Green and Wharton families.
Although Thomas the mariner was dead and his land sold by 1752, his brother-in-law (his wife’s brother John Sargent) continued to own land very near by Thomas’ 1,000 acres until the time of the American Revolution.
One more thing - in connection with the 1765 Orange County record of Henry Goare plt, against John Nicholason, def., I’ll add that there was a John Gore with land next to the John Nicholson of Orange in the 1760's.Fred. County DB 11, p. 255, 6 Oct 1766, land form John Gore living in Culpeper to Abraham Brewbaker of Frederick County, “adj. Mungo Price and John Nicholson.”(The Price family is also connected to the Nicholsons down in SW VA.)
Julia Ince, Fort Atkinson, WI
More Replies:
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Re: Nicholson Families of Culpeper and Madison Counties in Virginia
Douglas Beahm 2/06/03
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Re: Nicholson Families of Culpeper and Madison Counties in Virginia
julia ince 2/06/03
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Re: Nicholson Families of Culpeper and Madison Counties in Virginia
Douglas Beahm 2/06/03
-
Re: Nicholson Families of Culpeper and Madison Counties in Virginia
julia ince 2/06/03
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Re: Nicholson Families of Culpeper and Madison Counties in Virginia
Douglas Beahm 2/07/03
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Re: Nicholson Families of Culpeper and Madison Counties in Virginia
julia ince 2/07/03
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Re: Nicholson Families of Culpeper and Madison Counties in Virginia
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Re: Nicholson Families of Culpeper and Madison Counties in Virginia
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Re: Nicholson Families of Culpeper and Madison Counties in Virginia
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Re: Nicholson Families of Culpeper and Madison Counties in Virginia
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Re: Nicholson Families of Culpeper and Madison Counties in Virginia
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Re: Nicholson Families of Culpeper and Madison Counties in Virginia
julia ince 2/05/03