Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
-
In reply to:
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Marion Pezzullo 5/02/08
Joanne,
Some years ago you may remember that a Mormon historian ... and forger ... "found" documents attributed to Brigham Young, Joseph Smith, and whoever, and they changed the direction of LDS historical research until it was discovered that the documents were forged.
The documents on which you base your trust in your own lines might also be phoney. How would you really know.In other words, there is always an element of "faith" in the belief that historical accounts, letters, Bible entries, grave stones, and various written legal documents, including signatures, are genuine.So you look at time and place, and the probability that this person is, in fact, THE person, etc.You try to corroborate.That is what Tim has done to his satisfaction, with respect to the Goins' story.Once the story is accepted as correct and true, it moves into the realm of "factual."
But, of course, there are still some old outs about everything from the deaths of Kennedy and Elvis, to the Moon Landing, that a few people still question.Most of those people problems.Most of the rest of us agree that in order to build B upon A, you first need to accept that A is stable and the basis for a good foundation.I think that Tim has reached that point in his research.Jack--being from the same clan might want to chime in.
For Jack:Does Tim (and other Goins' work consitute the building of a genealogical "fact"--to the extent that we can really know the truth [our own bastards ... known and unknown ... notwithstanding]?
On another subject, Tim sent the following to me:
-----TIM'sCOMMENT ON THE TERM 'MELUNGEON'-----
Dear fellow Melungeon Researchers,
Regarding the link between the African word malungu, the Portuguese word melongo, and the word Melungeon, the theory first materialized years ago. Why is debatable.Some suspect because some Melungeons claimed they were Portuguese, and outsiders thought Melungeons were part African.Hardly a controversial idea. There are also even tri-racial people in America mistakenly called by ethnic names regardless of their real ethnic connection to the origin of the name.
That's two theories. There are others.
"Melongo" is a Portuguese word with an Angolan origin, "malungu".Beginning in the 1500s and thru the 1600s, it described Angolans being shipped from the Portuguese port of Luanda, to other places overseas.
The observation that the word melongo is separated by many miles and many years from actual Melungeons, can be said of nearly all Melungeon name theories, perhaps the least likely being "melongo".
Dont think so?Consider:
1.The Portuguese word "Melongo" was in use at the time that Virginia was first settled by the first whites and blacks.
2.The word "Melongo" was used by Angolans on Portuguese ships to identify themselves.
3.Melungeon ancestors included Angolans who were captured from Portuguese ships and brought to Virginia at a time when Angolan prisoners of Portuguese ships were calling themselves Melongo.
4.After arriving in Jamestown, Angolans who were alived when the word was used to described Angolans coming to America, had descendants who later migrated to west Virginiia and eventually to Tennessee.
5.The word Melungeon first appeared in western Virginia and eastern Tennessee at a time when Melungeons of Angolan ancestry were moving to western Virginia and eastern Tennessee.
Not so far removed as you would think.
Let me ask an exonym question.Which of the following words are, and are not, strictly speaking, exonyms:
1.Nigeria
2.naija
3.Niger
4.Negro
5.Negra
6.The "n" word.
7.colored
8.Afro-American
9.African American
10.Nubian
Different black people sometimes have strongly differing views on nearly all of the above words.Exonyms are sometimes, and at different times, sometimes adopted, sometimes rejected, and sometimes exclusively accepted for only a select group to utter.For example, strictly speaking, is the "n" word an exonym presently?Yes and no.
Then why can't Melungeon follow the same rules?
Tim Hashaw
-----END of TIM's COMMENT--------------
Meaning of EXONYM:
Since the ANGOLAN word "melongo" probably comes from the PLACENAME of the "Melunge Highlands" or "Melunge Plains" (there is still an area and even a town by that name in Angola), you might want to consider the following United Nations paper on endonyms and exonyms (having to do with PLACES and those who name them or who refer to them):
http://www.zrc-sazu.si/wge/Documents/Papers%20Prague/Woodman_Exonyms%201.pdfhttp://www.zrc-sazu.si/wge/Documents/Papers%20Prague/Woodman_Exonyms%201.pdf
Note that the Portuguese--who first evangalized the Angolans, and then decided that they wanted to take their prime realestate (leading to the enslavement of the people who lived in the region with the most fertile land ... the "Melenge" region)--were influenced in the development of their word by the existence of practice among the Angolans of referring to the people of their region by the unifying term used FOR the region.
But then skip ahead 8 or 10 generations, to a point in time when the people whoHADused that name for themselves since their GGGGG-grandpa's time, no longer wanted to be identified by it ... since they were not interested in (continuing to be) saddled with the consequences of being part-African.So THEY stopped using the once ENDONYM name they had once used, but outsiders continued using it ABOUT them, thus changing a former endonym into an EXONYM.
This is not necessarily what Tim is saying, but it makes sense in light of the meaning of both words.First the name develops from the Angolan's practice of referring to extended kinfolk (i.e., people from the same area) with a placename or regional name familiar to all of them ... the way my Grandfather might have said,"Hey, are you a Yank?" to a GOB sighted on the streets of Marsielle during WWI.But my 1970, with "Yankee go home" painted all over Europe, Americans were much less likely to refer to themselves as "Yanks."Of course "Yank" and "Yankee" are not place names, but the use, disuse, and adoption by an outside group is relevant here.
Is has been reported that by the time the "Vanderbilt Ladies" and others started doing their "local color" articles on the Melungeons, the group had already come to disavow the name.Either thatORthey did not want to let outsiders in on the word that--for generations--they had used as an inside word.But by that time, the laws having changed, and them having moved from the effects of racism and laws against people of African heritage, they hed ceased to use the nema ... or at least to identify themselves to outsiders with it.But they knew other families.They married outside the group, and some simpley left the group.The word would have been shared, and after a time--even if it had remained an inside designation used by their own people to describe each other--at SOME point, there would have been enough defections (due to outside marrying, passing for white, friendly neighbors turned hostile, and even church relationships gone sour) that others would have latched onto the word, and would have ... and, indeedDID use it when referring to the group. The Stoney Creek Baptists certainly used the word ABOUT the Melungeons.And since those folks would only have moved into the area about the same time or slightly after the first Melungeons got there, I would have to say that they (the congregation) got the expression FROM members of the group, and then applied it to them ... whether or not the group liked it.And, in fact, it may have been the use of the term by outsiders about them in a negative context (i.e., when disfellowshipping them, for example), that led the Melungeons, themselves, to cease to accept it as their own word for themselves.
That is, it moved from being an old endonym (whose placename connection was log forgotten) to being an exonym ... even though those using it had no possible idea of the original placename the term once referred to, back in Angola.
Curtisfriend9
More Replies:
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Lucy Suder 5/02/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Marion Pezzullo 5/02/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Curtis Christy 5/02/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Marion Pezzullo 5/02/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Janet Crain 5/02/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Virginia Indian Heritage Association 5/02/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Lucy Suder 5/03/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Virginia Indian Heritage Association 5/05/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Curtis Christy 5/14/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Lucy Suder 5/05/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Lucy Suder 5/05/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Curtis Christy 5/14/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
kevin mullins 5/14/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Curtis Christy 5/14/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
kevin mullins 5/15/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Curtis Christy 5/16/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Lucy Suder 5/16/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Curtis Christy 5/16/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Lucy Suder 5/16/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Curtis Christy 5/16/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Curtis Christy 5/15/08
-
In this corner, Championing Tim Hashaw' theory ...
Lucy Suder 5/16/08
-
Re: In this corner, Championing Tim Hashaw' theory ...
Curtis Christy 5/16/08
-
Re: In this corner, Championing Tim Hashaw' theory ...
Lucy Suder 5/16/08
-
Re: In this corner, Championing Tim Hashaw' theory ...
Curtis Christy 5/16/08
-
Re: In this corner, Championing Tim Hashaw' theory ...
Curtis Christy 5/16/08
-
Re: In this corner, Championing Tim Hashaw' theory ...
Lucy Suder 5/16/08
-
Re: In this corner, Championing Tim Hashaw' theory ...
Curtis Christy 5/16/08
-
Re: In this corner, Championing Tim Hashaw' theory ...
Lucy Suder 5/16/08
-
Re: In this corner, Championing Tim Hashaw' theory ...
Curtis Christy 5/19/08
-
Re: In this corner, Championing Tim Hashaw' theory ...
Lucy Suder 5/19/08
-
Re: In this corner, Championing Tim Hashaw' theory ...
Curtis Christy 5/19/08
-
Re: In this corner, Championing Tim Hashaw' theory ...
Lucy Suder 5/19/08
-
Re: In this corner, Championing Tim Hashaw' theory ...
Curtis Christy 5/20/08
-
Re: In this corner, Championing Tim Hashaw' theory ...
Lucy Suder 5/21/08
-
Re: In this corner, Championing Tim Hashaw' theory ...
Callie Dodson 5/21/08
-
Re: In this corner, Championing Tim Hashaw' theory ...
Laree Pezzullo 5/21/08
-
Re: In this corner, Championing Tim Hashaw' theory ...
-
Re: In this corner, Championing Tim Hashaw' theory ...
-
Re: In this corner, Championing Tim Hashaw' theory ...
-
Re: In this corner, Championing Tim Hashaw' theory ...
-
Re: In this corner, Championing Tim Hashaw' theory ...
-
Re: In this corner, Championing Tim Hashaw' theory ...
-
Re: In this corner, Championing Tim Hashaw' theory ...
-
Re: In this corner, Championing Tim Hashaw' theory ...
-
Re: In this corner, Championing Tim Hashaw' theory ...
-
Re: In this corner, Championing Tim Hashaw' theory ...
-
In this corner, Championing Tim Hashaw' theory ...
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
kevin mullins 5/20/08
-
On the word "MELUNGEON" - Reply from Tim Hashaw to Kevin Mullins
Curtis Christy 5/27/08
-
Re: On the word "MELUNGEON" - Reply from Tim Hashaw to Kevin Mullins
Lucy Suder 5/27/08
-
Re: On the word "MELUNGEON" - Reply from Tim Hashaw to Kevin Mullins
Lucy Suder 5/27/08
-
Re: On the word "MELUNGEON" - Reply from Tim Hashaw to Kevin Mullins
kevin mullins 5/28/08
-
Re: On the word "MELUNGEON" - Reply from Tim Hashaw to Kevin Mullins
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Curtis Christy 5/22/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Curtis Christy 5/21/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Curtis Christy 5/21/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Curtis Christy 5/21/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Lucy Suder 5/22/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Jeanette Lambert 5/22/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Callie Dodson 5/23/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Jeanette Lambert 5/23/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Lucy Suder 5/23/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Jeanette Lambert 5/23/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Callie Dodson 5/23/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Curtis Christy 5/22/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
-
On the word "MELUNGEON" - Reply from Tim Hashaw to Kevin Mullins
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
jan lala 5/16/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
-
A Response to Kevin from Tim Hashaw on the word "Melungeon"
Curtis Christy 5/27/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Lucy Suder 5/15/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
kevin mullins 5/15/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Lucy Suder 5/16/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
kevin mullins 5/17/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Lucy Suder 5/17/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
kevin mullins 5/17/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
Lucy Suder 5/17/08
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.
-
Re: I just joined. Tim Hashaw asked me to pass along a message.