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Home: Regional: Countries: Ireland: Tipperary

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Re: grandparents
Posted by: Dave Boylan (ID *****7186) Date: December 26, 2011 at 19:36:15
In Reply to: grandparents by beryl hunt of 1660

Hello Beryl,

I located the Civil Registration birth indexes for three children of Humphrey Birmingham and Ellen Slattery at the Irish Family History Foundation (IFHF) website for County Tipperary (South). The indexes show the births of the children were recorded in the Clonmel (CP), that is, Civil Parish.

The IFHF website can be found at: http://www.rootsireland.ie/

Before you begin searching for ancestors at the IFHF website you first need to establish an account. Indexes are free to search, but to download a birth, baptism, marriage, or death transcription costs 5.00 Euros payable by credit card. Once the credit card payment is received a transcription of the record you are interested in, will be sent to your computer.

The indexes are for Mary Ellen (1915); Norah (1917); and Christina Mary (1919). The index for Mary Ellen is probably your grandmother. I’m not sure if you’ve found this information since your posting to the GenForum on May 21, 2011.

The indexes follow:


1 match for the search criteria: Birmingham (plus variants) Mary Ellen 1915 Parish: CLONMEL (CP)

The cost to view the full details of the 1 record that you have not yet viewed is €5.00

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Tipperary (South)
Surname: Birmingham       
First Name: Mary Ellen
Father's Surname: Birmingham
Father's First Name: Humphrey
Mother's Surname: Slattery
Mother's First Name: Ellen

Year: 1915

Parish/District: CLONMEL (CP)
____


1 match for the search criteria: Birmingham (plus variants) Norah 1917 Parish: CLONMEL (CP)

The cost to view the full details of the 1 record that you have not yet viewed is €5.00

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Tipperary (South)
Surname: Birmingham       
First Name: Norah
Father's Surname: Birmingham
Father's First Name: Humphrey
Mother's Surname: Slattery
Mother's First Name: Ellen

Year: 1917

Parish/District: CLONMEL (CP)
____


1 match for the search criteria: Bermingham (plus variants) Christina Mary 1919 Parish: CLONMEL (CP)

The cost to view the full details of the 1 record that you have not yet viewed is €5.00

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Tipperary (South)
Surname: Bermingham       
First Name: Christina Mary
Father's Surname: Bermingham
Father's First Name: Humphrey
Mother's Surname: Slattery
Mother's First Name: Ellen

Year: 1919

Parish/District: CLONMEL (CP)
____


If you were to order the birth transcriptions individually you’d pay a total of 15 Euros. But, the IFHF allows you to order the 3 transcriptions from one index for 12 Euros. To do this, access the index just as you see it below, without including the first names of the children or their years of birth in the IFHF search engine for Co. Tipperary (South):


3 matches for the search criteria: Birmingham (plus variants) Parish: CLONMEL (CP)

The cost to view the full details of the 3 records that you have not yet viewed is €12.00

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Tipperary (South)
Surname: Bermingham       
First Name:
Father's Surname: Birmingham
Father's First Name: Humphrey
Mother's Surname: Slattery
Mother's First Name: Ellen

Year:

Parish/District: CLONMEL (CP)
____


I’m not sure if you have the church marriage record or the civil marriage record for Humphrey and Ellen, but I found their civil marriage record at the IFHF website for Tipperary (South), showing their marriage was recorded in Clonmel in 1914:


1 match for the search criteria: Bermingham (plus variants) Humphrey 1914 Parish: CLONMEL (CP)

The cost to view the full details of the 1 record that you have not yet viewed is €5.00

Record Type: Marriage Records for Co. Tipperary (South)
Surname: Bermingham
First Name: Humphrey
Spouse's Surname: Slattery
Spouse's First Name: Ellen
Father's Surname:
Father's First Name:
Mother's Surname:
Mother's First Name:

Year: 1914

Parish/District: CLONMEL (CP)
____


The IFHF website doesn’t provide you with the names of the parents in baptism or marriage transcriptions. You have to either know who they were, or guess as to their names, or just go ahead and order the transcription to find out. Civil marriage records from this time period usually include the names of the fathers of the husband and wife, but not the names of their mothers.

You probably already know from the marriage record you have, who Humphrey and Ellen’s fathers were, but I took a guess that Humphrey’s father may have also been named Humphrey. The IFHF search engine accepted this, and the adjusted results of the index is below:


1 match for the search criteria: Bermingham (plus variants) Humphrey 1914 Parish: CLONMEL (CP)

The cost to view the full details of the 1 record that you have not yet viewed is €5.00

Record Type: Marriage Records for Co. Tipperary (South)
Surname: Bermingham
First Name: Humphrey
Spouse's Surname: Slattery
Spouse's First Name: Ellen
Father's Surname: Bermingham
Father's First Name: Humphrey
Mother's Surname:
Mother's First Name:

Year: 1914

Parish/District: CLONMEL (CP)
____


I then wanted to see if I could guess as to who Ellen Slattery’s father was. After going through the alphabet of likely men’s names from the letter A (Arthur,etc), to the letter W, the IFHF search engine accepted Ellen’s father as William Slattery:


Record Type: Marriage Records for Co. Tipperary (South)
Surname: Slattery
First Name: Ellen
Spouse's Surname: Bermingham
Spouse's First Name: Humphrey
Father's Surname: Slattery
Father's First Name: William
Mother's Surname:
Mother's First Name:

Year: 1914

Parish/District: CLONMEL (CP)
____


Next, I wanted to see if I could find any more information about Humphrey Birmingham/Bermingham, whose father was also named Humphrey. I figured that if the younger Humphrey had married in 1914, his year of birth would be circa 1894/1895, or thereabouts. I didn’t find birth or baptism indexes for a Humphrey Birmingham in the 1890s, or in the 1880s for that matter.

But, I did locate what I think may be your Humphrey’s baptism record at the Irish Genealogy website at:
http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/index.html

This record shows that Humphrey Bermingham, son of Humphrey and Mary Burnside Bermingham, was baptized in the St. Mary Pro Cathedral (Catholic), on 17 January 1879. At the time of the baptism the family were living in 13 Lower Mecklenburgh Street, Dublin. The sponsor or godparent at the baptism was Anna Brien. The priest who performed the baptism was Father Michael O’Hea.

Please see below:


Area - DUBLIN (RC) , Parish/Church/Congregation - ST. MARY, PRO CATHEDRAL
Baptism of HUMPHREY BERMINGHAM of 13 LR MECKLENBURGH ST on 17 January 1879

Name       HUMPHREY BERMINGHAM
Date of Birth       7 January 1879
Address 13 LR MECKLENBURGH ST
Father       HUMPHREY BERMINGHAM
Mother       MARY BURNSIDE

Further details in the record

Sponsor 1 ANNA BRIEN
Priest       MICHAELI O'HEA

About the record
Book Number       Page       Entry Number       Record_Identifier       Image Filename
N/R       39       N/R       DU-RC-BA-570069       st.mary's-pro-cath_mf_1872-1880_ba_0673
____

You can view a copy of the original baptism record at the Irish Genealogy website link at: http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/reels/st.mary%27s-pro-cath_mf_1872-1880_ba_0673.pdf

I also found the St Mary Pro Cathedral baptisms for four more Burnside children. These are Maria Brigida (1877); Julia (1881); Patrick (1887); and John Joseph (1888). You’ll see that when Maria Brigida was baptized in 1877, the family were living in 106 Lower Mecklenburgh Street. Also in the baptism record for Maria Brigida, her mother is listed as Julia Burnside rather than Mary. Julia could have been Mary’s middle name, or the entry in the baptism register could be an error on the part of the priest who baptized Maria Brigida.

When Julia was baptized in 1881, she and her family were living in 19 Denmark Place, Dublin.

When Patrick was baptized in 1887 the Berminghams were residing in 3 McCann’s Lane, and when John Joseph was baptized in 1888, he and his family were living in 17 Denmark Road.

Following each baptism is a link to view the original baptism record:


Area - DUBLIN (RC) , Parish/Church/Congregation - ST. MARY, PRO CATHEDRAL
Baptism of MARIA BRIGIDA BERMINGHAM of 106 LR MECKLENBURGH ST on 12 February 1877

Name       MARIA BRIGIDA BERMINGHAM
Date of Birth       1 February 1877
Address 106 LR MECKLENBURGH ST
Father       HUMPHREYS BERMINGHAM
Mother       JULIA BURNSIDE

Further details in the record

Sponsor 1 MARIA MELIA
Priest       BERNARDO FARRELL

About the record
Book Number       Page       Entry Number       Record_Identifier       Image Filename
N/R       29       177       DU-RC-BA-567362       st.mary's-pro-cath_mf_1872-1880_ba_0464

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/reels/st.mary%27s-pro-cath_mf_1872-1880_ba_0464.pdf

____


Area - DUBLIN (RC) , Parish/Church/Congregation - ST. MARY, PRO CATHEDRAL
Baptism of JULIA BERMINGHAM of 19 DENMARK PLACE on 22 July 1881

Name       JULIA BERMINGHAM
Date of Birth       15 July 1881
Address 19 DENMARK PLACE
Father       HUMPHREYS BERMINGHAM
Mother       MARY BURNSIDE

Further details in the record

Sponsor 1 ANNE BRIEN
Priest       P FEE

About the record

Book Number       Page       Entry Number       Record_Identifier       Image Filename
N/R       130       2162       DU-RC-BA-650314       st.marys_pro-cathedral_mf_1880-1889_ba_0181

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/reels/st.marys_pro-cathedral_mf_1880-1889_ba_0181.pdf
____


Area - DUBLIN (RC) , Parish/Church/Congregation - ST. MARY, PRO CATHEDRAL
Baptism of PATRICK BERMINGHAM of 3 MC CANNS LANE on 28 March 1887

Name       PATRICK BERMINGHAM
Date of Birth       22 March 1887
Address 3 MC CANNS LANE
Father       HUMPHRY BERMINGHAM
Mother       MARY BURNSIDE

Further details in the recordhttp://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003302887/

Sponsor 1       ANNE KEATING
Priest       CHAS MAHER

About the record

Book Number       Page       Entry Number       Record_Identifier       Image Filename
N/R       78       1239       DU-RC-BA-658555       st.marys_pro-cathedral_mf_1880-1889_ba_0789

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/reels/st.marys_pro-cathedral_mf_1880-1889_ba_0789.pdf
____


Area - DUBLIN (RC) , Parish/Church/Congregation - ST. MARY, PRO CATHEDRAL
Baptism of JOHN JOSEPH BERMINGHAM of 17 DENMARK ROW on 18 May 1888

Name       JOHN JOSEPH BERMINGHAM
Date of Birth       15 May 1888
Address 17 DENMARK ROW
Father       HUMPHRY BERMINGHAM
Mother       MARY BURNSIDE

Further details in the record

Sponsor 1 KATHN O GRADY
Priest       EDMUNDO LUBY

About the record

Book Number       Page       Entry Number       Record_Identifier       Image Filename
N/R       187       2956       DU-RC-BA-660263       st.marys_pro-cathedral_mf_1880-1889_ba_0898

http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/reels/st.marys_pro-cathedral_mf_1880-1889_ba_0898.pdf
____


St. Mary’s Pro Cathedral has been a part of Dublin life since its dedication ceremony on November 14 1825. The cathedral even has its own website which you can peruse at: http://www.procathedral.ie/

A modern Google Map showing the location of St. Mary’s Pro Cathedral at 83 Marlborough Street Dublin 1, can be seen at: http://tinyurl.com/7rj9sth

You can also read more about St. Mary’s Pro Cathedral at the Wikipedia link at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Mary's_Pro-Cathedral

Next I looked for but didn’t find the marriage record of Humphrey Bermingham and Mary Burnside at the Irish Genealogy website. But, I located their individual civil marriage indexes at the Ancestry.com subscription website, which shows their marriage was recorded in the Dublin South Registration District in the year 1876.

The indexes are below:


Ireland, Civil Registration Marriages Index, 1845-1958about Humphrey Bermingham

Name:       Humphrey Bermingham
Date of Registration:       1876
Registration district:       Dublin South
Volume: 12

FHL Film Number: 101252

Source Information:

Ancestry.com. Ireland, Civil Registration Marriages Index, 1845-1958 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2011.

Original data: “Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes 1845–1958,” Index. FamilySearch, Salt Lake City, Utah. General Register Office. "Quarterly Returns of Births in Ireland with Index to Births." Belfast, Ireland.


AND


Ireland, Civil Registration Marriages Index, 1845-1958about Mary Burnside

Name:       Mary Burnside
Date of Registration:       1876
Registration district:       Dublin South
Volume: 12

FHL Film Number:       101252
       
Source Information:
Ancestry.com. Ireland, Civil Registration Marriages Index, 1845-1958 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2011.

Original data: “Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes 1845–1958,” Index. FamilySearch, Salt Lake City, Utah. General Register Office. "Quarterly Returns of Births in Ireland with Index to Births." Belfast, Ireland.
____


Beryl, you can order the civil record of marriage for Humphrey Bermingham and Mary Burnside from the General Register Office in Roscommon Town, County Roscommon. You can also order the civil birth records for the five Bermingham children whose baptism records were seen above.

For information and costs of ordering birth, marriage, and death records from the GRO, go to: http://www.groireland.ie/

Next I wanted to see if I could find the Bermingham family in the 1901 census. To do this I went to the National Archive of Ireland website link at: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/

I looked for the Bermingham family in both Dublin as well as Tipperary, but couldn’t identify find them. I also looked for them in County Offaly (formerly Kings County), but didn’t find them there either. I may have missed them in the census as there are various spelling variations for the first name Humphrey and surname Bermingham/Birmingham.

But, I may have found Humphrey Bermingham in the 1911 census, residing in the household of 37 year old harness maker, John Tobin, in an address of Gladstone St. Upper, Clonmel, Tipperary. “Hamphrey” is shown to be a 28 year old servant and harness maker, who was born in Dublin.

The Irish Genealogy baptism record shows that Humphrey was born in 1879. Hamphrey’s age of 28 years old in the 1911 census places his birth circa 1883, and so his age is a little off, but that’s not unusual in these old census returns.

The census transcription follows:


1911 Ireland Census


Residents of a house 8.1 in Gladstone St. Upper (Pt. of) (Clonmel West Urban, Tipperary)


Surname Forename Age Sex       Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy       Irish Language Marital Status Years Married        Children Born Children Living

Tobin       John 37 Male       Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Saddler and Harness Maker       Read and write Single
Tobin       William 33 Male Brother Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Saddler and Harness Maker Read and write Single
Tobin       Ellie       30 Female       Sister       Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Read and write Single
Power       Nellie       10 Female Neice Roman Catholic       Co Tipperary       Scholar Read and write
Power       Bessie       8 Female Neice Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Scholar Read and write
Bermingham       Hamphrey 28       Male       Servant Roman Catholic Co Dublin       Harness Maker Read and write Single
Obrien John 26 Male       Servant Roman Catholic Co Dublin       Harness Maker Read and write Single                            
____


A copy of the 1911 census for Hamphfrey Bermingham can be found at the National Archives of Ireland website link at: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003302887/


I wasn’t able to conclusively identify Ellen Slattery in the 1901 or 1911 census enumerations for Ireland, but I’ve found a possibility for her in at least the 1901 census.

The 1901 census shows a 14 year old Ellen Slattery in the household with her mother and 7 siblings in an address of
Sergeant's Lane, Clonmel West Urban, Tipperary. The census shows that Ellen’s mother, 44 year old Ellen, is married, but her husband is not in the household with the family. The older Ellen’s occupation is shown to be Poulterer.

The oldest child in the household is 23 year old William Slattery. He may have been named after his father.

The census transcription is below:


Residents of a house 7 in Sergeant's Lane (Clonmel West Urban, Tipperary)


Surname Forename Age Sex       Relation to head Religion Birthplace        Occupation Literacy       Irish Language Marital Status

Slattery Ellen       44 Female Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Tipperary       Poulterer Read and write Married
Slattery William 23 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Tipperary General Labourer Read and write Not Married
Slattery Patrick 19 Male Son       Roman Catholic Co Tipperary General Labourer Read and write Not Married
Slattery Edward 17 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Tipperary General Labourer Read and write Not Married
Slattery Michael 16       Male       Son Roman Catholic       Co Tipperary       General Labourer Read and write Not Married
Slattery Ellen       14 Female Daughter Roman Catholic       Co Tipperary       Scholar Read and write Not Married
Slattery John       12 Male Son       Roman Catholic Co Tipperary Scholar Read and write Not Married
Slattery Norah        9 Female Daughter Roman Catholic       Co Tipperary       Scholar Read and write Not Married
Slattery Lawrence 6       Male       Son       Roman Catholic
____


A copy of the 1901 census for the Slattery family can be found at: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai003916769/       ;


Next I found a death index for a Humphrey Birmingham at the Latter Day Saints (LDS) website at:
https://www.familysearch.org/#form=advanced-records

The index shows that Humphrey’s death was recorded in the Clonmel Registration District for the June quarter of 1935. You can order his death record from the GRO. If you order his death record see who is listed as the informant, as the informant may have been his wife Ellen (if still alive), or one of Humphrey’s children:


Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958 for Humphery Birmingham

Name:       Humphery Birmingham
Registration District:       Clonmel
Event Type: DEATHS
Registration Quarter and Year: Apr - Jun 1935
Estimated Birth Year:       1881
Age (at Death): 54
Mother's Maiden Name:       
Film Number:       101740
Volume Number: 4
Page Number:       303
Digital Folder Number: 4202047
Image Number: 00048
____


I didn’t uncover a death index for Humphrey Birmingham’s wife Ellen in Clonmel at the LDS website.

When I began researching the Birmingham family after reading your message to the GenForum, I had come across another Humphrey Birmingham who was born in neighboring County Wicklow, just a year before your Humphrey. This Humphrey Birmingham’s parents were James and Mary Byrne Birmingham. Even the two Humphrey’s mother’s maiden names were close.

This Humphrey Birmingham’s baptism took place in the Hacketstown, Wicklow, Catholic Church.

His IFHF index is below:


1 match for the search criteria: Birmingham (plus variants) Humphry 1878 Parish: HACKETSTOWN (RC)

The cost to view the full details of the 1 record that you have not yet viewed is €5.00

Record Type: Baptism/Birth Records for Co. Wicklow
Surname: Birmingham       
First Name: Humphry
Father's Surname: Birmingham
Father's First Name: James
Mother's Surname: Byrne
Mother's First Name: Mary

Year: 1878

Parish/District: HACKETSTOWN (RC)
____


The reason I mention this Humphrey Birmingham is that it is very easy to confuse the two families, as I did at the beginning of the research today. It’s possible they were related, as the James Birmingham in the above index, and the Humphrey Bermingham who married Mary Burnside, could have been brothers, but that’s just a guess.

Best Wishes for a Happy New Year Beryl.


Dave Boylan


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