Re: Lookup Marrige details Please Wright
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In reply to:
Lookup Marrige details Please Wright
Insley 7/04/03
Hello Insley,
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (also known as the Mormon
Church) website at www.familiysearch.org has information about the marriage
of James William Wright and Ellen Sydall (or Syddall as it's spelled in the
record). The website also lists the names of the fathers, but not the mothers
of James and Ellen.
Please see below for the records:
JAMES WILLIAM WRIGHT
Male
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:
Parents:
Father:JAMES WILLIAM WRIGHT
Marriages:
Spouse:ELLEN SYDDALL
Marriage:01 SEP 1863Staveley, Derby, England
Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source
records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.
Source Information:
Batch No.: M055754,Sheet: 00
Dates: 1861 - 1887
Film Number: 1041905 = Marriages 1861-1887 Burials 1813-1877
_________________________________
ELLEN SYDDALL
Female
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:
Parents:
Father:SAMUEL SYDDALL
Marriages:
Spouse:JAMES WILLIAM WRIGHT
Marriage:01 SEP 1863Staveley, Derby, England
Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source
records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.
Source Information:
Batch No.: M055754
Dates: 1861 - 1887
Film Number: 1041905 = Marriages 1861-1887 Burials 1813-1877FHL BRITISH
________________________________
Under Source Information for both entries, you see reference to Film Number
1041905. This is a microfilm of the Church of England Parish Registers of Staveley, which you can order from your local Family History Center for the marriage record of James and Ellen. The marriage record may also give you the names of the mothers of James William Wright, and Ellen Syddall.
Later in this email you'll see a birth record for whom I believe to be your Ellen Syddall, daughter of Samuel Syddall and Elizabeth. But first, I'd like to show you a record of the 1881 British census that indicates James W. and Ellen Syddall Wright did not have children, at least none that may have lived up to 1881. But the census does indicate that James probably had two sons by a previous marriage or union. That census return, for Chiswick, Middlesex, follows:
Household:
James W. WRIGHT
Relation: Head
Marital Status: M
Gender: Male
Age: 57
Birthplace: Chiswick, Middlesex, England
Occupation: Builder (Retired)
Ellen WRIGHT
Relation: Wife
Marital Status: M
Gender: Female
Age: 58
Birthplace: Whittingdon, Derby, England
James W. WRIGHT
Relation: Son
Marital Status: U
Gender: Male
Age: 27
Birthplace: Chiswick, Middlesex, England
Occupation: Engineer (Driver) (Builders)
Arthur B. WRIGHT
Relation: Son
Marital Status: U
Gender: Male
Age: 21
Birthplace: Chiswick, Middlesex, England
Occupation: Farmer Unemployed
Mary SYDDALL
Relation: Visitor
Marital Status: U
Gender: Female
Age: 59
Birthplace: Whittington, Derby, England
Occupation: Annuitant
Ellen READ
Relation: Servant
Marital Status: U
Gender: Female
Age: 14
Birthplace: Swindon, Wiltshire, England
Occupation: General Servant
Source Information:
Dwelling: Church St. Holly House
Census Place: Chiswick, Middlesex, England
Family History Library Film: 1341328
Public Records Office Reference: RG11
Piece / Folio: 1350 / 44
Page Number: 3
_____________________________________
As you can see the Wright's oldest son James W. is listed as being 27 years
old in the year 1881. That would place his birth year in 1854. His brother
Arthur is listed as being 21 in 1881, which places his birth year as 1860.
James Wright and Ellen Syddall, according to the marriage record found at
the Latter Day Saints website, were married in 1863, which would have been
nine years after the younger James's birth, and two years after the birth of
Arthur. If you order the church marriage record of James and Ellen, check to see if the marriage actually occurred in 1853 rather than 1863, because if they did marry in 1853, then Ellen was probably the mother of James and Arthur.
However, if the marriage record shows that James and Ellen were definitelymarried in 1863, I think this means that Ellen Wright was most likely James W. Wright's second wife, and that she was not the birth mother of James and Arthur, although she may have adopted them.
I suppose though, there is that chance that James and Ellen could have lived together and had children without being married until later in life, but the social stigma of doing that in Victorian England would probably have made their living together very awkward in the eyes of polite society.
The Mary Syddall listed in census was most likely Ellen's sister of perhaps
a cousin. As you can see from the census return, both Ellen and Mary were
born in Whittington, Derby.
The mystery is, who was the elder James Wright's first wife, if indeed there
was a first wife?
There may be a way to find out, and there may also be a way to find the
birth certs of the younger James William Wright, and his brother Arthur.
According to information found at the GenUki website at:
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/blangston/genuki/reg/mdx.htm#brenhttp://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/blangston/genuki/reg/mdx.htm#bren, Middlesex
County birth, marriage, and death records for Chiswick are held in three
different places. These locations include Hounslow, Ealing, and the
Richmond-Upon-Thames Districts. The census return shows that James and
Arthur were born in Chiswick, which is located in Middlesex County.
Birth, marriage, and death records were compiled by the British government for England and Wales, beginning in 1837.
I've pasted below the addresses and phone numbers for these district offices
that now hold the Chiswick birth, marriage, and death registers. You can
first call or write the Hounslow office and ask if there are marriage and
birth records for Chiswick. If this office does not hold certificates for
the dates you require, you can then phone or write to the offices in Ealing and or
Richmond-Upon-Thames.
You can first ask for the birth records of Arthur, born approximately 1860
(according to the 1881 census), and James W. Wright, Jr., born approximately
1854. These birth certs may give the name of their mother. Please see
below for the District office addresses:
District Office, Hounslow
88 Lampton Road
Hounslow
TW3 4DW
Tel +44 (0)208 862 5112
From outside of England, Phone: 011-44-208 862 5112
________________________
Ealing Town Hall
New Broadway
Ealing
London
W5 2By
Tel +44 (0)208 758 8946
From outside England, Phone: 011-44-208 758 8946
________________________
District Office, Richmond upon Thames
1 Spring Terrace
Richmond
Surrey
TW9 1LW
Tel +44 (0)208 940 2853
or Phone 011-44-208 940 2853 from outside of England
_________________________________
These offices may also have the marriage record of the elder James Wright and
his (alleged) first wife, if they were married in Chiswick. If son James was born in 1854, for instance, and if he was the first born child, his father and mother may have been married from 1850 to 1853.
The parents may have had other children between James and Arthur, as there is about a seven year time span between the two births.
There is also the possibility that James William Wright and Ellen Syddall
had children in Staveley, Derbyshire, who may have died young.
In addition to the church marriage records filmed by the Latter Day Saints
mentioned earlier in this email, baptism records for the Church of Ireland
Parish Church of Staveley, Derbyshire, have also been filmed from 1865
onward.
If James and Ellen had any children in Staveley, they could be listed in
these baptism registers. Please see below for information and film number:
Parish registers, 1558-1931
Authors Church of England. Parish Church of Staveley (Derbyshire) (Main
Author)
Notes Microfilm of original records in possession of Derbyshire Record
Office, Matlock.
Includes registers from the Chapel of Ease which is located in the village
of Handley. Handley is located within the parish of Stavely.
Derbyshire Record Office no.: D661/A/PI/2/8-10, 3/6-11.
Baptisms 1865-1883 Handley baptisms 1871-1897 Marriages 1754-1861 Banns
1754-1812
Film: 1041904
______________________________
The baptism records do not begin until 1865 in the microfilms. I
am not sure if the Latter Day Saints just did not film the church's baptism
records until that year, or if the Church of Staveley didn't begin to keep
baptism records for 1863 and 1864.
If you find that children of William and Ellen were baptized in Staveley,
you can then obtain the birth records of these children from the District
Registration Office that now holds the vital records of births, marriages,
and deaths for Staveley. This office is in Chesterfield.
The District Registration Office should also have the marriage record of
James Wright and Ellen Syddall on file.
You can write to:
Registration Office, Chesterfield
New Beetwell Street
Chesterfield
Derbyshire
S40 1QJ.
Tel:+44 (0)1246 234754
Fax: +44 (0)1246 274 493
I would actually recommend calling first. If you phone outside the U.K., you
would phone 011-44-1246-234754. At least, that's the number that I would
dial from the United States. You should first confirm that the registration
office does indeed hold the birth, marriage, and death records for
Staveley. If the office does keep these records, you should ask how much the
records cost.
The General Register Office (GRO) in Southport should also have the marriage
and birth certificates on file for the Wright family as well.
For information about the GRO and the vital records it holds, go to:
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/nsbase/registration/certificates.asphttp://www.statistics.gov.uk/nsbase/registration/certificates.asp
More information about the GRO can also be found at:
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/registration/general_register.asp#contacthttp://www.statistics.gov.uk/registration/general_register.asp#contact
It's probably best to call the GRO first before ordering records. Aside from
Providing the GRO staff with dates of birth and marriage, you should ask the
staff if they need the volume and page numbers for the marriage and
birth records you require. If the GRO will not process your requests without
volume and page numbers, it would be best to then go ahead and obtain the
records from the registration districts, which do not require volume and
page numbers, as far as I know.
The next record is for the baptism of an Ellen Syddall, daughter of Samuel and Elizabeth. I believe this Ellen to be the future wife of James Wright.
Ellen, as you will see, is recorded as having been born in Whittington, Derby. That's the place of birth listed for her in the 1881 census. Please see below:
ELLEN SYDDALL
Female
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:13 JAN 1822Whittington, Derby, England
Death:
Burial:
Parents:
Father:SAMUEL SYDDALL
Mother:ELIZABETH
Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.
Source Information:
Batch No.: C059021
Film Number: 0428950, Item 1
Film Number: 0498140, Item 2
Film Number: 0498141
Film Number: 428950 Item 2
___________________________________
The Source Information above lists four microfilms concerning the Syddalls. The baptism for Ellen however, should be on microfilm number 498140 Item 2, while marriage and earlier baptism records of the church would be on 428950 Item 1.
These two films record the Bishop's Transcripts for the Church of England's Parish Church of Weston-Upon-Trent, and contain baptism, marriage, and burial records back to 1661.
On the other hand, Film Numbers 0498141 and 428950 Item 2, are films for the Church of England, Parish Church of Whittington, in Derbyshire. Film 0498141 should have the baptism of Ellen, while 428950 Item 2, should contain baptisms, marriages, and burials from 1668 to 1810.
I'm not sure why Ellen's baptism record would be mentioned in two different churches registers however.
You should order all the films from your Family History Center to see the baptism record of Ellen, and the marriage record of her parents. If the Syddalls had lived in the Whittington, Derby area for several generations, the films covering the marriages and baptisms from the 1600s may also record their various baptisms and marriages. That's why you should order all the films to see how far back you can trace this Syddall line in Derbyshire.
You should also be able to track the deaths of the Syddalls in Whittington by going through these church registers.
In addition, the LDS website also listed the baptisms of several of Ellen's siblings. Unfortunately, like the baptism record of Ellen, the maiden name of Elizabeth Syddall is not given in these records either. However, the film numbers mentioned above should also contain the baptism records of these children. Perhaps the baptism records will list Elizabeth's maiden name. Or, perhaps the marriage record of Samuel Syddall and Elizabeth, will mention Elizabeth's maiden name.
In the baptism records pasted below, you will again see the record for Ellen. I've included her baptism information again, along with her brothers and sisters so that you can see the birth order of all the Syddall children:
ANNE SYDDAL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 30 JUN 1816 Whittington, Derby, England
HENRY SYDDAL - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Male Christening: 05 APR 1818 Whittington, Derby, England
ELIZABETH SYDDALL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 18 NOV 1819 Whittington, Derby, England
ELLEN SYDDALL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 13 JAN 1822 Whittington, Derby, England
ELIZA SYDDALL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 01 FEB 1824 Whittington, Derby, England
JOHN SYDDALL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 30 JUL 1826 Whittington, Derby, England
CHARLES SYDDALL - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 06 JUL 1828 Whittington, Derby, England
HERBERT SYDDALL - International Genealogical Index / BI
Gender: Male Christening: 21 MAR 1830 Whittington, Derby, England
___________________________
The baptism records show Elizabeth's baptism year as 1819, and Eliza's baptism year as 1824. Eliza is another form of Elizabeth. This may indicate that Elizabeth died as an infant, and that the parents named another daughter with the shortened version of Elizabeth, that is, Eliza.
Also, If you'll recall from the 1881 census, there was a Mary Syddall visiting the family of James and Ellen Wright. The above list of baptisms does not include a Mary Syddall. I did another search for any Mary Sydalls baptized in Whittington, Derby, and came up with the following listing:
MARY SYDALL
Female
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:28 SEP 1814Whittington, Derby, England
Death:
Burial:
Parents:
Father:SYDALL
Mother:ELIZABETH
Source Information:
Batch No.: C059021
Film Number: 0428950
Film Number: 0498141
____________________________________
As you can see in this baptism record only the father's last name is given, while only the the mother's first name is given, that being Elizabeth. This Mary could be a sibling to Ellen and her other brothers and sisters.
In the 1881 census though, Mary's age is 59, which would have placed her year of birth as 1822, which actually was the year Ellen was born, according to her birth record above.
Because of the conflicting information about Mary's age and date of birth, I am not positive the Mary in the record above was a sibling to Ellen and her other brothers and sisters.
In any event the baptism of this Mary should be on the church microfilms listed earlier in this email. You can order all of the microfilms from the Family History Center.
If you have questions about any of this information Insley, please don't hesitate to email.
Best Wishes,
Dave Boylan
More Replies:
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Re: Lookup Marrige details Please Wright
Insley 8/23/03
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Re: Lookup Marrige details Please Wright
David Boylan 8/23/03
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Re: Lookup Marrige details Please Wright