Re: Y-DNA Project Forming--Descendants of Robert Fleming (1772--1852 Pike Co. KY)
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In reply to:
Re: Y-DNA Project Forming--Descendants of Robert Fleming (1772--1852 Pike Co. KY)
Michael Fleming 10/01/06
Michael,
Thanks for the response, and your thoughts on Irish versus Scottish origins for the Fleming surname based on one M or two (also, your inquiry about this new project).Genetically speaking, DNA cannot differentiate between Scots of Irish origins and the inherently Irish.
The project I have launched is specifically focused on the descendants of Robert Fleming (1772-1852). Oral family history that has been passed down on all the branches of this family indicates an Irish origin for the family. One of the project’s goals is to confirm this origin—which has been stalled for years (with no advancement back beyond Robert through any available records). At present, the project only has 3 members—representing only two of the 5 sons of Robert Fleming (Robert Jefferson and Frederick Fleming). All three members have received their test results back and two match each other exactly and both most closely match with men in the larger database (who have been tested also) whose origins are in Ulster Provence in Northern Ireland. The third project member is also showing an Irish origin and matches most closely with men in the larger database from County Meath—one of the neighboring counties to the west of Dublin.
Since the two participants who match each other are second cousins and already represent a break in the genetic line—having a non-Fleming surname (according to oral tradition, their great-grandfather was a natural child of a Fleming man who was one of the grandsons of Robert Fleming, through his son Robert Jefferson), there is already some reason to doubt that genetically they are descendants of Robert.In order to help solve whether this is true, a 4th project member who also goes back to Robert Jefferson (though another line down) has joined the project and his test is in process.
The third project member represents the line of Frederick Fleming, son of Robert the immigrant.Since family tradition indicates that Robert came from Dublin, Ireland, and this project member best matches with men from a county neighboring Dublin, at present he is the best candidate for representing the unbroken genetic line back to Robert. However, this cannot be certain until other direct male descendants of a) Frederick Fleming and b) other direct male descendants of the other sons of Robert Fleming (the immigrant) are tested. If several additional members representing other sons of Robert are tested and they match exactly, then we know we have identified the genetic DNA of Robert Fleming the immigrant.
NO DESCENDANT OF ROBERT FLEMING CAN BE CERTAIN THAT GENETICALLY THEY ARE A FLEMING-- until other Fleming men who descend directly from Robert Fleming (1772-1852) come forward and are tested.
Adding to the questions and uncertainties we already have is the fact that at present, none of the tested members of the project are (currently) matching with ANY FLEMING in the database (of Irish, Scottish or Flemish origins). This leaves open the possibility that Robert Fleming himself, or the genetic ancestry of HIS father or male line back is not Fleming at all.
Once again, only by the DNA testing of additional direct male descendants of Robert Fleming (1772-1852) will these questions be answered. The project, a link to join, and the posted test results may be found at this location:
www.familytreedna.com/public/Fleming-Appalachians
A larger (broad-based) Fleming DNA project is also available at this location:
www.familytreedna.com/public/fleming
The two Fleming projects hope to coordinate together and both will keep their test results posted in the public webpages of the projects (for all to see and compare with).
More Replies:
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Re: Y-DNA Project Forming--Descendants of Robert Fleming (1772--1852 Pike Co. KY)
Tony Fleming 11/11/06
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Re: Y-DNA Project Forming--Descendants of Robert Fleming (1772--1852 Pike Co. KY)
Tony Fleming 11/11/06
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Re: Y-DNA Project Forming--Descendants of Robert Fleming (1772--1852 Pike Co. KY)
Michael Fleming 10/01/06