Chat
|
Daily Search
|
My GenForum
|
Community Standards
|
Terms of Service
|
|
|
Interesting and thanks for taking the time to clarify this.
Yes, there are problems in old MSS and books, for instance it is taken as gospel that Councillor William was descended from Nicholas and/or John Farrar of the Virginia Company, especially by Farrars who did their rough genealogy in the late 19th and early 20th Century, such as Rev Timothy Farrar and his Memoirs of the Farrar Family. Even the Virginia Magazine of Biography and History, or rather those Farrar descendants who contributed to it as First Families of Virginia, made the same claim and unfortunately if you peruse the boards and the web today you will find many a person making the same claim.
There is a problem that whatever is written (book or the intenrnet) is given the gloss as "truth", and then the anxious, but lazy "family researcher" will latch onto this erroneous information and accept it as gospel.
The same goes for even Alvanh Holmes Some Farrar Island Descendants. she relied heavily on a small circle of family and friends with whom she connected, and in the process that small circle of friends had earlier made some errors, serious, in their attempt to bridge gaps and show their own connection to Councillor William, she also did not have access to the hundreds, maybe thousands, of lineages from Councillor William that existed, so reading her book and the Virginia Magazine of Bio and History you would think that some lines simply died out, such as John Sutton Farrar, Jr.
Fortunately the power of the net is slowly pulling these lineages together, but in the process violence is being done to many lineages once believed to be "fact", but were merely rationalizations.
And so it continues.
One thing that I have learned is that there is nothing in genealogy that is writ in stone.. nothing, and the moment one believes it to be, heartache and headache follows.
There is the pride of authorship to contend with, be it a major author or a minor follow on.. and pride goeth before the fall.
Anyway I thank you for your most interesting post and have no problem accepting it as is, for I have no information at hand to contradict it.
However I do notice that the lineage of Alexander King of Scotland comes into the Farrar family with the marriage of Cecily Kelke to John Farrar.
The problem I'm having, the problem Alvanh Holmes had, the problem all Farrar descendants of the Farrars of Ewood have is connecting said Henry Ferror (who built Ewood manor in 1471, subsequently burned by Royalist in 1647) to the Ferrers of Groby, or any other lineage of the Ferrers.
Unfortunately there is no record found, no documentation, nothing that connects Henry Ferror with any line that connects back to Gwalklein de Ferreriis St Hillaire, b abt 950 AD and his son Henricus, capt of Horse for William in 1066.
There were however other de Ferreriis in the Battle Abbey Roll.
If you have any information that bridges that gap I would appreciate it, very much so.
Meanwhile this is all Ihave to go on. DNA and the Capelli Census of Y Chromosone in the British Isles.
You can google the Capelli census, but it's named for a scientist who headed a census whereby a team selected towns and locations that showed a relatively stable population over centuries (England is less mobile than America, and the further back in time, the more stable the population, with families living in the same shire and even community for hundreds and thousands of years.. especially the villans, peasant class, the serfs and those descended from them which is most Americans and Brits).
You can google Capelli Census and read about it, ancestry.com also has a pdf spreadsheet of it's results.
It identified six tell tale DNA Y segments and sampled for them.
The spreadsheet shows the location where particular DYS were found.
They sampled 26 communities, plus north Germany/Denmark and Norway.
The Farrar DYS was found in ll of the 26, and heavy concentrations in north Germany/Denmark and Norway.
The Farrar DNA is R1a1, this is also known as Viking DNA because it was spread by Vikings.
Vikings, however, does not refer to a particular people from a particular region, but the word viking referred to the craft they used. High prowed, low draft clinker built boats, which were rowed and sailed.. And that style of craft was used by the Angles and Saxons (north Germans and Danes) as well as the famous Vikings (who were from Denmark, Sweden and Norway..cousins as it were.
Most of the ll DYS I mentioned were found in places of settlement by Norwegian (Vikings) Orkney, Shelton, Morpeth (Northern Scotlan, Western Isles.
The Farrar DNA strain was found in Uttoxeter, and in the south of England like Faversham and the Channel Isles, (the places that the Normans roamed and settled).
The Farrar strain of R1a1 is differentiated from the Norwegian or Scandanavian strain of R1a1 by way of the DNA Y Segments of YCAII a and YCAII b. The Scandanavian DYS at those markes is 19 and 21, the Farrar is 19 and 23.
This is accounted for by the following.
The origin of the strain R1a1 is in Southern Russia, the Kurgan region (and thus it is also called Kurgan DNA).
Kurgans are the burial tumuli of the Scythians, the Scythians are the peoples the Sanskrit writings called Aryans and who conquered India. (The name means noble) and the DNA is found in India and Pakistan amongst the Brahman class, or Islamic descendants of Brahmans.
The DNA is also heavily concentrated in Serbia, and thins out as it moves north to Hungary, Ukraine, Poland, Sweden, Denmark and Norway.
The nomads who traveled on horse and lived on cattle, that were the Scythians or their ancestors migrated following the retreating glaciers,and that path led them north through Russia into Sweden, then they spread South AND west.The Western "Scythians" (I use sneer quotes for lack of another name) settled in Norway and there their DNA mutated out to 19-21 (the copy machine that replicates DNA when the cells of the zygot start to divide, stuttered) and the Norwegians probably had one single ancestor. A kinsman moved into Sweden and then over into Denmark and his copy machine did not stutter.
There is no one strain of "Viking DNA" because the Vikings (of all origins) took slaves, and incorporated the native peoples into their culture and clans. Thus in Shetland and Orkney there were Gaelic Vikings (Gaelic or Celtic DNA is R1b1), and in north German there were Vikings we call Saxons and Angles whose DNA is I2 and I1 with R1b1 also thrown in)
The town of Uttoxeter is in the same shire (Staffordshire) as Tamworth Castle, and was part of the many fiefdoms bestowed on Henrie at the Honors of Tutbury.
(Tutbury by the way was named for the Celtic God Tutas and bury is a corruption of burgh which was a Celtic word for fort, thus the fort or enclosure of the god Tutas),in any event it was burned to the ground. However Tamworth Castle survives, built in the mott and bayley style. it stands tall and it's halls are festooned with artifacts of the de Ferrers whom once owned the castle.
The fiefdoms primarily associated with the Ferrers were in Staffordshire, Derbyshire, Yorkshire, Notthinghamshire, Yorkshire, Rutland, Leicestershire and Lancastershire.. that part of England called the midlands. Staffordshire was the seat of the King of Mercia, Algar, whose sons Edwin and Morcar, forfeited their kingdom when they revolted against Duke William in 1071. He took the land from them and bestowed it to Henrie de Ferrers in what is called the Honors of Tutbury.. some 210 Fiefdoms in all.
Long story short, there is no documented evidence linking the ancestry of Henry Ferror m Agnes (Horsfall?) of Ewood Manor, Halifax parish, West Riding, Yorkshire to Henrie de Ferrers Duke Williams Capt of Horse.
However there is circumstantial evidence from DNA, as I have discussed above that makes that linkage. I await the day that some piece of paper is discovered that will confirm the linkage made by DNA.
DNA is becoming increasingly important in genealogy (to the chagrin of many) because documentation, though apparently worshipped, is faulty. It is forged, it is ignored, it is misinterpreted, leaps of logic are made, to confirm connections are created to fulfill social, financial and political, (not to mention) emotional needs.
And thus started my journey. I was once asked for my pedigree and I posted the usual which claims that Henry Ferror m Agnes (Horsfall) was the son of another Henry married Agnes Heckstall or some such, but found myself corrected. Needless to say, the correction was an embarassment, and my initial reaction was to retrench and get argumentative, but I'm mature and of a scientific bent, and try to be objective. So I reexamined everything, did some more research, and found documents like the Baddesly Clinton, it's manor, church and hall that confirmed the refutation of my previous assertion.
It is tempting to fill in gaps, especially when doing so connects one to an important and "noble" family. (BTW my ancestor Henri was not noble, he was part of an armed gang of home invaders who slaughtered hundreds of thousands, and plundered the land, subjugating the peoples.
This fixation on establish linkage to "nobility" is interesting psychologically, and deserves more study from that point of view, as it appears to be a compensation mechanism for lives banal and in need of "social elevation" if not personally then vicariously through ancestors, (albeit ignoring the infamous, the murderers, thieves, rapists, liars, bigamists . just ordinary folk in our background).
Anyway. I'm the Farrar Farrow DNA project administrator.
you can look us over at http://www.worldfamilies.net/surnames/farrar/results also click on pedigrees.
I know I sound harsh perhaps, but I am or try to be objective, and objectivity will scrape against nerves.
But I believe that science (DNA testing) will eventually enable us to flesh out the story and confirm family histories or myths and paper genealogies.
There are three legs to genealogy
l. Documentation
2. Family history
3. DNA
For long I questioned my own ancestry, and others even questioned whether I was a descendant of Councillor William, but DNA (and pedigrees) have established that I am, but that I carry the same Y DNA as Councillor Wllliam, myself and one other in the project are both descended from Major William Farrar II, grandson of Councillor William, and unless there was a mutation between the Councillor and his grandson, he and I are an exact match in 37 markers (and probably 67) and thus have the same Y DNA as Councillor William, and that means that we should find some "cozens" in England.
In fact we have one in the project, he is from Surrey and although three of his DYS have mutated, we share a common ancestor with a 99.85% probability within the last 24 generations or 480 years.. We suspect that said ancestor was John Ferror(Ferrar) as a merchant and real estate investor he would have been in Surrey profiting off the sale of Henry VII's Nonsuch Castle, which Charles I had given to his paramour Barbara Villiers, and which she in turn sold off, stone by stone.
At present I'm trying to research the Visitation of Surrey, Here's a link to the Visitation of Hertforshire which on page 53 starts with Farrar of Great Amwell and William Farrar of Ewood =Margaret dau of John Hugh Lacy of Brearley.
Alos page 141 for the Ferrers of Groby, this is the visitation of 1572.
http://uk-genealogy.org.uk/england/Hertfordshire/visitations/index.html
Our line is also found in the Visitation of Surrey
http://books.google.com/books?id=kKwKAAAAYAAJ&pg=PR6&lpg=PR6&dq=visitations+of+surrey&source=bl&ots=f-2d0cJ_wb&sig=SADTlTUXBOfEAwVLotyyuRYuCWI&hl=en&ei=EK-aSvS3LIr6sQP2nMChAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5#v=onepage&q=ferrer&f=false
page 157, which is important because it brings into focus, the Farr cozen from Surrey England, as John Ferrar m. Cecily Kelke had sons Henry of Westwood Surrey, John, William and Humphreys. Since the visitation was in 1623, and the information on William and Humphreys is unknown and thus not recorded, the date given in the Visitation of 1623 for William and Humphreys is the date of the Visitation.
If you are interested in more discussion of DNA or the Capelli Census email me. I will send you some info.
Thanks again for your response. With so many people working on it,and if there is objectivity or an attempt at objectivity, gaps will be closed and eventually a complete and accurate genealogy will be produced.
Oh, and if you know any male Farrar's maybe you can induce them to join the DNA project.. It started small, but the family of cousins is growing. I found a James Farrar, whom as I said share the same DNA, and we share the same Ancestor, Major William Farrar, son of Col Wm, son of Councillor Wm.
William Farrar
Notify Administrator about this message?
Followups:No followups yet |
| http://genforum.genealogy.com/farrar/messages/2361.html | ||
 |
Link to GenForum Add Forum |
|