Re: For John Ravilious - Farrars to Plantagenets
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In reply to:
For John Ravilious - Farrars to Plantagenets
Ardath Buckaway 5/15/05
Dear Ardath,
Thanks for your message, and glad to hear you're back up and running (even if not at full speed...).
Your message asked in part, re: the Bosvile-Symmes-Lacy ancestry I posted,
" I had most of it but found I need some clarification from Hugh Lacy Esq. of Breardley Hall & Agnes Savile back through Isabel Hastings & Sir Thomas Bosvile. I didn't have an Isabel listed as one of his children. Also, I have a different name for the wife of Gerard Lacy. I have his wife as Joan Symmes, and her father as Richard Symmes whose Will was probated on
6 Apr. 1492. Buried Chantry of St. John the Baptist, Barnsley Parish. "
1. Isabel Hastings is identified as a daughter of John Hastings, Esq. and his wife Anne Morley, and wife of Sir Thomas Bosvile of Ardsley, Yorks. in two pedigrees incl. in the Visitation of Yorkshire [Harleian Society publications, Vol. 16], as follows:
'Izabell wyff to Thomas Bosvyle of Ardesley.' [HSP 16:156, Vis. of Yorkshire: pedigree of Hastynges]
'Izabel doughter to John Hastynges of Fenwyke.' [HSP 16:28, pedigree of Bosvyle]
The Hastings pedigree gives John and Anne a total of 8 children, including Isabel (above) and Elizabeth, wife of Sir Robert Hildyard of Winestead, with whom you're already familiar (ancestors of Cecily Kelke).
2. Sir Thomas Bosvile, of Ardsley and his wife Isabel Hastings evidently had 10 children, of whom only 2 are given in the Bosvile (Vis. Yorkshire) pedigree mentioned above.One who was not named therein was Margaret Bosvile, wife of William Symmes, who was identified by William Brown, F.S.A. as " Margaret, daughter and coheiress of Thomas Bosvile of Edderthorpe " in his edition of Yorkshire Deeds (Vol. II, p. 20).Edderthorpe was a important manor also held by Sir Thomas Bosvile of Ardsley, which I've shown passed to the Symmes family, evidently as the maritagium (marriage portion) of Margaret Bosvile on her marriage to William Symmes.
3. Due to some error or lack of information, or another source using erroneous information, Alvahn Holmes identified Hugh Lacy's mother as JOAN Symmes, dau. of Richard Symmes.This identification has been proved incorrect, as Gerard Lacy, Esq.'s wife was ALICE Symmes (who did have a sister Joan) -and Alice Symmes' father was William, son of the elder Richard Symmes of Barnsley (d. 1492) and brother of the Rev. Richard Symmes (d. 1496).
William Symmes died before 7 Oct 1483, as we have record of the administration of his estate provided by William Brown:
' 61. Oct. 7, 1483. Admon. of the goods of William Symmys of
Bernesley granted to Margaret, his relict, and to Richard Symmys
of Barnesley. (Ibid., v, 203.)' [Yorks. Deeds II:22]
4. The identification of the younger William Symmes as heir of his father (1483) and later of his grandfather Richard (1492), and of his sister Alice (Symmes) Lacy as one of his heirs (1501), proves the identification of Hugh Lacy's mother, as follows from my notes (which include the will of the younger William Symmes):
'William Symmes, son of William Symmes', residual beneficiary of the will of his grandfather Richard Symmes of Barnsley, dated 7 Mar 1491/2, proved 6 Oct 1492[Yorks. Deeds II:21]
Brown wrote concerning William Symmes' succession following
the death of his father in 1483:
'William Symmes junior thus became heir to his uncle Richard, and
on Oct. 7, 1497, paid 8s. 2d. heriot for the two messuages,
buildings, half bovate of land, and 15 acres of roideland and 4
1/2 acres lately taken from the waste (by the vicar) in
Hipperholme, after the death of Richard Symmes, vicar of Halifax,
described as “patrui” of William junior. (Wakefield Court Roll.)
William Symmes junior of Barnsley, mercer, with William Issott,
was the founder of a chantry there (vide will and Valor
Ecclesiasticus, v, 57). ' [Yorks. Deeds II:20-21, note (2);
Turner, p. 133 ]
'Wm. s. and heir of the late Wm. Symmes', feoffee (together with his uncle vicar Richard Symmes and others) of a feoffment dated 1494:
' 1494. - John Weloweby (by his substitute John Haldworth of Hiperum,) surrendered a messuage, bovate, 9 ac. 3 rds, to the use of John Neville, knight, Thos. Nevile his son and heir, Mr. Ric. Symmes, vicar of church of Halifax, Wm. s. and heir of the late Wm. Symmes, John s. and heir of Thos. Lacy, Esq., Mr. Thos. Sayvile, vicar of the church of Braithwell, Wm. Rookes of Roydeshall, John Stanclyf,....., and their heirs on trust, who paid for ingress xxs.This refers to the founding of the Willoughby Chantry at Halifax....' [Turner p. 131]
'60. Dec. 5, 1496. Admon. of the goods of Master Richard Symmes,
vicar of Halifax, granted to William Symmes of Barnesley. (Ibid.,
v, 487.)' [Yorks. Deeds II:22]
__________________________________
' 62. Oct. 4, 1501.William Symmes.
My body to be buried where it shall please God, my Saviour.
To the rector of the church of Derfield my best beast in the name
of my mortuary.To the fabric of the chapel of Wyrkburgh, iijs.
To the fabric of the church of Barnsley one cow.Also I will
that one hundred marks of good and lawful money of England be
levied of my goods and chattells by my exors., or by their
assigns, and the same to be placed in a chest within the
monastery of the Blessed Mary Magdalen of Munkbretton, there to
be safely kept until lands and tenements in the yearly value of
five marks can be bought with the same towards the establishing
and supplying (in performacionem et supplementum) of a chantry
to be founded and established by my exors., or assigns in the
said church of Barnsby (sic).Residue to Gerard Lacy and John
Syntpole, whom I ordain my exors.John Sayvell, knt., and Hugh
Boswell, clerk, supervisors.Witnesses, Hugh Bosevyle, clerk,
Richard Clerke, parochial chaplain of Barnsby (sic), Thomas
Bosvyle, gent., Richard Pylley, Richard Clewe.Proved Nov. 3,
1501, by Gerrard Lacy, one of the exors., power being reserved
to the other exor. (Ibid., vi, 13.) ' [Yorks. Deeds II:22]
' 1506. - Alice wife of Gerard Lacy, Esq., Isabell wife of John Sayntpaule, and Johna wife of Thos. Tryggot, paid 40s. heriot for mess., edifice, 1/2 bov., 15 acres of roidland, 4 1/2 ac. formerly waste in Hyprum (graveship); Wm. Symmes (brother of Alice and Isabella, and uncle of Johana) being dead.' [Turner pp. 135-6]
' William Symmes junior died without
issue, so that on June 18, 1507, Alice wife of Gerrard Lacy,
esq., Isabel wife of John Sayntpaule, and Joan wife of Thomas
Trygott, paid 15s. heriot for the Hipperholme property, as his
heirs, William being described as brother of Alice and Isabel,
and uncle of Joan. (Wakefield Court Roll.)All these ladies
were described as widows in a surrender in court on Mar. 19,
1534-5, by which they made over their interest in the same
property to William son of John Sayntpoule (ibid.) ' [Yorks. Deeds II:21]
All the best,
your cousin, John
More Replies:
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Re: For John Ravilious - Farrars to Plantagenets
Graham Milne 6/26/07
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Re: For John Ravilious - Farrars to Plantagenets
Graham Milne 6/26/07
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Re: For John Ravilious - Farrars to Plantagenets