Ancestry of Sir John ERNLE or ERNLEY (ca 1464-1520), Chief Justice, Common Pleas
Ancestry of Sir John ERNLE or ERNLEY (ca 1464-1520), Lord Chief Justice of the Common Pleas (1519-1520): related to GROVE, MORLEY, LAMBE, HYDE, DARELL, COLLINGBOURNE, PLUNKETT-ERNLE-ERLE-DRAX, MALWYN/MALEWAIN, BEST, DAWTR(E)Y
originally posted by [email protected] (Richard Carruthers aka Carruthers-Zurowski, more-or-less defunct email address, which accepts incoming mail only)
To: soc.genealogy.medieval
Organisation: RootsWeb.com
Date: 8 Feb 2005, 02:16:39 GST
The new Oxford DNB states that Sir John Ernley*, Chief Justice of the Common
Pleas (1519-1520), was the son of John Ernley (d. 1465), by his wife
Margaret (d. in or before 1485), daughter of Nicholas Morley (1410-1472x4)
and Joan Waleys, of Glynde, Sussex.
I wonder if anyone can extend this pedigree or help me corroborate it?
"Burke's Commoners" (vol. 3, p. 619, col. 2, pedigree of Ernle, of Ernle and
Whetham, sub Money, of Much Marcle) states that Sir John Ernle was the son
of John Ernle of Ernle [i.e Earnley], Sussex by his wife "Margaret Morley
daughter of Nicholas Morley, a scion of the house of Morley, of Morley, in
Lancashire, by his wife, one of the daughters and co-heirs of Sir John
Walleys, knt."
The successor volumes, "Burke's Landed Gentry" give the parentage of the
same Sir John Ernle, Chief Justice, as follows:
1906 edn, sub Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax, p. 481, col. 2
Sir John Erneley, younger son of John Erneley of Erneley [i.e., the modern
Earnley, Sussex] and his wife Margaret, daughter of Michael Grove.
The foregoing is restated in the 1937 edn, under Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax of
Charborough, p. 641, col. 2 and in the 1952 edn, under the same, p. 689,
col. 2.
Additionally, there has been a great deal of confusion over more than the
parentage of this Sir John Ernle. Sometimes he is called Chief Justice of
the Common Pleas and erroneously elsewhere Chief Justice of the Court of
King's Bench.
More serious for the genealogist, however, is the problem posed by the fact
that apparently he had an elder brother, also named John Ernle, whom the
Oxford DNB says was born 1461/2, and was of Fosbury and Bishops Cannings,
Wilts.
This John Ernle, the Elder, is the ancestor of the Plunkett-Ernle-Ernle-Drax
family, and of the Restoration Chancellor of the Exchequer, Sir John Ernle,
of Whetham, Calne, Wilts. (d. 1697) [whom Burke's General Armory, p. 328,
col. 2, states was the descendant of Sir John Ernle, Chief Justice, which
appears to be in error insofar as it implies that he was a direct rather
than a collateral descendant of the Chief Justice {whom it also erroneously
says was K.B.}]. Indeed, John Ernle The Elder would appear to be the
forebear of the main (Wiltshire) line of the Ernle family which died out in
the male line in 1787 (disputedly as baronets), as well as my own cadet
Wiltshire line, a member of which, Banister Ernle, left male issue in 18th
century London whose fate I have yet to learn.
Christopher Whittick, the author of the Oxford DNB article on Sir John
Ernley, says in his article that the existence of these two brothers of the
same name has been the source of the "subsequent confusion of genealogists".
Indeed it has, and I am trying to untangle the garbled information to be
found in various publications in order to produce a more accurate pedigree
of the entire family and its many branches. It would seem that within
England, at least, the surname is extinct, save in the Wodehousianly
orotund, Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax, whose Ernle descent, as mine, comes via
many female lines.
In the effort to sort out the Ernle pedigree, I have been obtaining all the
material listed in G.W. Marshall's "Genealogist's Guide"** regarding this
family, as well as all the PCC wills via documentsonline. I have also
obtained Col. Awdry's pedigree from the Society of Genealogists along with
notes gathered by Mr Royal and deposited there. Edward Kite's pedigrees at
the Wiltshire Archæological and Natural History Library in Devizes, Wilts.,
have been consulted via indistinct microfilm copies as have some other
material alluding to Ernle and the allied families of Lambe of Coulston,
Wilts., and Button of Alton Priors, Wilts. I have also collected material
from the Victoria County History of Wilts., but some of it has also only
increased my puzzles, e.g., the account under Fosbury, Wilts.
Some of this material listed in Marshall, being from secondary sources, has
deepened the confusion over Sir John's parentage, along with creating other
pedigree problems.
"A History of the Castles, Mansions, and Manors of Western Sussex", by
D.G.C. Elwes and C.J. Robinson (1876), gives a very confusing pedigree of
"Ernle of Earnley, co. Sussex." which it helpfully states is derived from
"Burke's Hist. of The Commoners, Burke's Extinct Baronetage, Foss's Judges,
Le Neve's Knights, Dallaway's Sussex, Kimber and Johnson's Baronetage, &c.,
&c."
Here, Sir John Ernle, Chief Justice is called the 2nd son, of "John Ernle,
of Earnley, co. Sussex (4 Edw. IV, 1464-5)" [who would appear to be the
correct father] by his wife, "Agnes or Joan, dau. of Simon Best, by Agnes,
d. and h. of .... Mervin, of Echilhampton [sic], co. Wilts.", and names his
elder brother not as John of Fosbury and Bishops Cannings, but as William
Ernle (IPM, 1546). The pedigree goes on to marry Sir John first to "Anne,
daughter of Constantine Darel, of Collinbourne [sic], co. Wilts." and second
to "Margaret, daughter of Edmund Dawtrey, Esq." [the only wife, as Margaret
Dawtry, Sir John Ernley is given in the Oxford DNB].
This account seems to have conflated the two John Ernles, giving both
brothers' wives to the combined man. Moreover, the composite's mother is a
third woman, closely resembling neither of the Margarets, Morley or Grove,
more often named as his mother, but Agnes or Joan Best. This third lady,
whom most sources call Joan Best, was properly the daughter and heir of
Simon Best and Agnes, daughter and heir of John
Malwyn/Malewain/Malewyn/Malwin/Malewin, Esq., lord of the manor of
Etchilhampton (alias Ashlington), Wilts., and is normally the cited not as
Sir John's mother, but as the wife of Sir John Ernle's paternal grandfather,
yet another John Ernle. It would appear that this marital alliance was the
source of the family's migration from Sussex to Wilts.in the time of John
Ernle, The Elder, when the family eventually fell heir to the Etchilhampton
estates of the Malwyn family via the Best heiress.
Even more confusing is Dallaway's Sussex, 1st edn, p. 25, which supplies a
pedigree of "Ernley", derived from "MSS. Coll. Arms. D.11 Vis. by R. Cooke,
1570. MSS. B."
Here Sir John Ernley, Chief Justice of Common Pleas, ob. 1536 [sic]" is
listed as the son of "John Erneley" and "Margaret, daughter of Henry
Morley", and grandson of Sir Henry Erneley (whom Burke's mentions in some
earlier editions, before discarding him).
His wife is cited as Anne, daughter of William Dawtrey.
His brother, John the Elder [b. 1461/2, of Fosbury and Bishops Cannings in
ODNB] is made his great-great-grandson by having the John Ernle who married
Joan Best tacked onto the pedigree as the 2nd son of Richard Erneley (d.
1577), Sir John's true grandson via his son William Ernley, of Cackham [now
Cakeham, Sussex], M.P. for Chichester 1542, "ob. 1346" [sic, for 1546].
All this is not very helpful, save in demonstrating why Christopher Whittick
mentions the confusion of genealogists in his ODNB article on Sir John
Ernley, and lies behind my reasons for posting this query.
I have also made enquiries of the College of Arms, but shall have to renew
these as initially I was interested only in the information that might have
been housed there about my own branch of Ernle family that founded by my
proven forebear, Thomas Ernle, gent. (d. 1595), lessor of Bremeridge manor
in Dilton in the parish of Westbury, Wilts., second of the three sons of
John Ernle***, Esq. (d. 1 Feb. 1571/2) and his wife Mary, daughter of
William Hyde, Esq., of Denchworth, Berks., and his descendants whom Burke's
only alludes to in passing as the Ernles of Brembridge [sic].
Many thanks in advance for any help.
Richard Carruthers, M.A., Oxon.
*=Ernle is the standard modern variant of the surname's spelling, but there
have been many spellings. So far I have found Ernle, Erneley, Ernley and
Ernely in the Oxford DNB all referring to the same family. The Sussex place
name from which the surname Ernle is derived has been standardised as
Earnley, which better reflects its pronunciation.
**=1903 edn, p. 281 "ERNELEY, ERNELY, ERNLEY, or ERNLE. Burke's Commoners,
iii. 619; iv. 209 Visitation of Sussex, 1570, printed by Sir. T. Phillipps,
(Middle Hill, fol.) 4. Harleian Society, viii. 1999; xx. 38 Dallaway's
Sussex, i. 25. Visitatio Comitatus Wiltoniæ, 1623, printed by Sir T.
Phillipps. Hutchins' Dorset, iii. 543. Wiltshire Archæological Magazine, xi,
192. Castles, Mansions, and Manors of Western Sussex, by D.G.C. Elwes and
C.J. Robinson, 75. Private Memoirs of John Potenger, Esq., by C.W. Bingham,
at end. Wotton's English Baronetage, iii. 217. Visitation of Wiltshire,
edited by G.W. Marshall, 74 Burke's Extinct Baronetcies. The Genealogist,
New Series, xii, 26".
***=apparently the son of John Ernle (d. 1556), of Bourton manorhouse,
Bishops Cannings, Wilts. by Lucy, daughter of Thomas Cooke, merchant of
Salisbury, and grandson of the abovementioned John Ernle, The Elder (b.
1461/2, d.?), by his wife Anne, daughter of Constantine Darell of Littlecote
manor in Ramsbury, Wilts.
P.S.
I wrote to this list of my Ernle research about two years ago. Thanks mostly
to PCC wills, I have now proved my Ernle descent back to the point at which
my cadet line branched off from the main line with the abovementioned,
Thomas Ernle of Bremeridge (d. 1595). His PCC will lists a very large family
(14 children) including an eldest son, Thomas Ernle, who was born in 1574/5
according to his father's IPM.
The late T.R. Thomson, F.S.A., F.R.Hist.S., compiler of "Materials for a
History of Cricklade [Wilts.]", revised edition, 1959, p.59, mentions this
second, Thomas Ernle, as the tenant in 1633 of Abingdon Court manor in
Cricklade, of which his father had first become tenant some time after the
execution of Thomas, Lord Seymour of Sudely, in 1549. Thomson states that
Thomas Ernle 2 was buried in Whiteparish, Wilts. on 27 September 1639,
though he does not cite his source for this information. I have checked the
Whiteparish records at the Society of Genealogists, but have not found the
burial entry, nor I have not found Thomas 2's will. I do, however, have that
of his son, a third, successive, Thomas Ernle, gent., of Purton, Wilts.
(Archdeaconry of Wilts., made 1694, pr. 1695), which names his son-in-law,
Robert Major, otherwise known as Phillips, gent. [called Robert Phillips
alias Major, yeoman, of Purton, in his own 1707 PCC will, ref. PROB 11/496]
who married Thomas Ernle 3's daughter, Cisalia/Cecilia "Sis" Earnlee,
gentlewoman, by licence [not found] at Malmesbury Abbey, Wilts., on 17
August 1672. This couple had an eldest child, Cis Phillips (1672/3-1757), of
Purton and Lyneham, Wilts., who was married first to John Holliday (d.
1701), by whom she had issue, 3 sons and a daughter, including some
(possibly her sons John and William) who seem to have gone to Pennsylvania
colony with her Anglican-turned-Quaker brother, John Phillips. Cis Phillips
the widow Holliday was married secondly to my own ancestor, William Large
(1679-1747), yeoman, of Purton, Wilts. It should be noted that the PCC
will**** of William Ernle (1583-1662/3), gent., of Bideford, Devon, is
especially helpful in clarifying my Ernle descent. William was a younger
brother of Thomas Ernle 2 and named his nephew Thomas Ernle 3 of Bradon
(i.e. Bra[y]don, Purton, Wilts).
****=Will of William Ernle, Gentleman, of Bideford, Devon, dated 16 July
1662 & proved PCC London 15 June 1663, PRO reference PROB 11/311.
Richard Carruthers, M.A. (Oxon.)
Vancouver
British Columbia
CANADA
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Re: Ancestry of Sir John ERNLE or ERNLEY (ca 1464-1520), Chief Justice, Common Pleas
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Re: Ancestry of Sir John ERNLE or ERNLEY (ca 1464-1520), Chief Justice, Common Pleas
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Re: Ancestry of Sir John ERNLE or ERNLEY (ca 1464-1520), Chief Justice, Common Pleas
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Re: Ancestry of Sir John ERNLE or ERNLEY (ca 1464-1520), Chief Justice, Common Pleas
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Re: Ancestry of Sir John ERNLE or ERNLEY (ca 1464-1520), Chief Justice, Common Pleas
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Re: Ancestry of Sir John ERNLE or ERNLEY (ca 1464-1520), Chief Justice, Common Pleas
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Re: Ancestry of Sir John ERNLE or ERNLEY (ca 1464-1520), Chief Justice, Common Pleas
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Re: Ancestry of Sir John ERNLE or ERNLEY (ca 1464-1520), Chief Justice, Common Pleas
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Re: Ancestry of Sir John ERNLE or ERNLEY (ca 1464-1520), Chief Justice, Common Pleas
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Re: Ancestry of Sir John ERNLE or ERNLEY (ca 1464-1520), Chief Justice, Common Pleas
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Re: Ancestry of Sir John ERNLE or ERNLEY (ca 1464-1520), Chief Justice, Common Pleas