Chat
|
Daily Search
|
My GenForum
|
Community Standards
|
Terms of Service
|
|
|
The total migration to France is estimated to be 40,000 persons.....primarily to Brittany, Bordeaux, Rouen and Paris
in the 1590s a great number were military men: many of whom lived in the northern frontier towns and garrisons of France.,,,essentially migration to France was more or less continous during Pierres lifetime......
and the social diversity was great: from the lowest and poorest to the highest strata...
One should also note that this migration was still less to France than to Spain and Germany..of the Irish
France although they needed Irish soldiers: felt the Irish were more closely aligned with their enemy Spain: and didnt actively want them to migrate and stay in France.
From 1602-1606 Pont Neuf in Paris reports a colony of 2,000 Irish beggars......rather equal to the Irish quarter in London called Knockfergus.
The same was true of Rouen:......and this may account for so many earlier DNA hits I got for Pierre in Roeun regions:
There were also populous Irish colonies in Flanders.
Paris regrettably does not have the parish records for the Irish while those in Rouen are not yet available to see.
But going on names: Paris was a favourite of the Southern Irish clans..........Brittany does however have good records for them: as well as smaller numbers in Anjou.
In general: those who established in France were dominantly Munster in origin.
One sees the same family names in France during this time frame as Barbados and Montserrat.......
The elite however did favour Toulous and Bordeaux..
and we know we have our O Sullivans in both places.
The merchants however were not poor: and they were fewer in number: they did not tend to wander much.
By the 1620s the Munster flow to Brittany and Anjou really ramped up.
Apparently Brittany parish data is rich with mentions of new Irish arrivals during this time frame.
The next surge in the 1630s was due to heavy recruitment of 6 Irish regiments in France.......and were nearly all Irish foot soldiers from the Munster regions.......
Once in France: most never returned to Ireland.
Beginning in the 1640s Irish immigration to Brittany was also strong.....with more Irish regiments from 1645 and 1647 arriving.....
After this in the 1650s we have the arrival of prominent merchant families....by this time nearly half of all Irish clergy had also left for France.
.......one regiment to France was the O Sullivan Beare regiment: of the DNA lineage we are investigating.......which arrived in 1653
The merchants though were settling St. Malo, Nantes, Port Louis and Morlaix......and a few in La Rochelle.......
By and large though: Nantes and Paris were the epicentre of Irish exiles.....
Naturalization of them began to be strong in the 1670s.....and we should find records then if Pierre left kin behind.
The wealth of the Irish in Nantes by this point was staggering.........
The actual Gaelic elite were not present in any great numbers in France prior to 1650........those that were there were more likely Norman Anglo Irish.....
In France itself: those of these two Irish extractions: one ancient Gaelic and the other more modern Norman did not mix..........never intermarried and were often rivals.
In general in society: the Irish were well accepted: often sponsored if need be........even French royalty sponsored poor Irish children as godparents...
They did concentrate in the legal and military professions.....
This was so in Brittany as both they and the Irish felt they were the same races and cultures....one people
It was said it took 2 generations for full integration from Irish to French identity....
This included switching over to speak French: French intermarriages and French versions of Irish names....
If we include Pierre in this formula: then his people were originals from around 1603......and he would be the 3rd generation.
(it is said at first the French and Irish spoke Latin to each other)
One thing is certain: a great many of these Irish took French or Breton names at baptism......assimilating their Irish roots into French culture......
One out of 3 Irish soldiers in French service used a French dit name......only Irish foreign soldiers did this: the Swissand Scots did not etc.
What is unique about the Irish taking French dit names and or French last names: is just how ordinary they would be:
Like De Forest and maybe like Sirre...it is often said the ordinariness of these French names is what should be a tip off that they are not original French......a pattern I have noticed myself....
Many Irish born served their entire military careers in nothing but French regiments: while others did France, Britain and Spain as jobs came up
On the whole: most Irish never did seek French citizenship even though it was to their advantage for their offspring to do so: most probably believed they would recoup their lands in Ireland one day.....
In general it was always the merchants who sought naturalization: particularily the ones in Brittany: which is why I am hopeful of finding some family for Pierre one day there.
Irish tradesmen in France are particularily absent from government sanctioned structures: such as guilds.
Interestingly: they were subjects of the King of England: yet shared the religion of the French: thus a strange in between status applied to them.
Apparently there is a document called the 1666 Roll of Irish Catholic denizens of Brittany.......thus if Pierre was living in Brittany at that time with an Irish identity: he might well have been on that census.
In any event: by 1644 when Pierre was born: his true Irish identity might well have been long buried........
All we have is the DNA to tell us who his kin were.......
and now the hunt to find a listing of him in Brittany hopefully........or the other usual Irish settled areas.
Notify Administrator about this message?
Followups:No followups yet |
| http://genforum.genealogy.com/cyr/messages/2029.html | ||
 |
Link to GenForum Add Forum |
|