Chat | Daily Search | My GenForum | Community Standards | Terms of Service
Jump to Forum
Home: Surnames: Cyr Family Genealogy Forum

Post FollowupReturn to Message ListingsPrint Message

Re: More on Pierre DNA and S. Irish connections
Posted by: v. suzanne sears (ID *****1949) Date: September 04, 2010 at 11:47:09
In Reply to: More on Pierre DNA and S. Irish connections by v. suzanne sears of 2246

Just a footnote on this DNA apparently originating in Munster

Of all the DNA samples in the world that bear Pierres unique or similar signature:

75% are located here
13% are in Scotland
11% in England
2% in Europe

Its hard to dismiss the origins based upon these percentages: even if we do know there arent enough European samples to compare with yet

This establishes a From Munster origin: spreading backwards into Britain and Europe

Of the Irish ones;

26% are in Clare County
23% are in Tipperary
16% arein Limmerick

Therefore 65% of the 75% globally all them are located on the extreme west coast of Southern Ireland.......

Limmerick shows 16%
Cork shows 14%........showing the spreading out pattern from the west coast inwards

In term of northern Ireland: it is miniscule.......2%

Now either this is some kind of genetic dead end......thus the clustering.....and it came from somewhere else..

or this is some kind of morphing into a near separate genetic species: more or less.....due to isolation

The trouble we have is that there simply isnt a pool of this DNA anywhere else in the world significant to point to an origin

Certainly the first 12 tribal markers indicate an Alps and outward origin......

and it is stronger north to Belgium than south to Iberia....

But what it looks like is a very small ancient few individuals.........from somewhere in Europe or the Mediterranean.........who landed there and prospered.

This gene profile is identifiable around the year 1000AD as distinct from other Irish groups.......

History says these people were there from at least 500AD...if not sooner.

The sheer luck that so many migrated to North American is responsible for us being able to identify this cluster at all.....as it is otherwise insignificant in global DNA profiles.....perhaps no more than 4% of all known samples....

and even that number is bumped up simply because this group is overrepresented in the data banks.

It is clear this DNA pattern existed before Viking raids in the region: but it is not out of the question that enslavement or voluntary service to Vikings spread the pattern into other Viking settlements in northern Europe.

All these persons are said to be Dal Cassian from this region:

or descended from Cas: 347AD

Dal Cassian family names are:

MacArthur
Boland
O Bryan
Brennan
Casey **** as in Roger Casey to Acadia
Considine
M Cormacan..McCann
Cosgrave
McGrath
Curry
Glyn
Hearne
Hogan
Hurley Hearly
Kelleher
Kennedy
Magan
McMahon
Meara
Downey
Noonan
Power
Quirk
Regan
Scanlon
Seasnain
Twomey

and

Butler
Hart
Cannon
Kelly
Lynch
MacNamara
Welch
Wright
Bresnan
Corbett
Forbes
Johnson
Mc Connell
Halloran
Ryan
West
Crowe




The O Bryans being direct from Brian Boru.....the others through brother and cousin lineages


Pierre is a best match with O Bryan, and Butler
however the trick here: is that through marriage:
and O Bryan married a Butler woman and took the last name

so it is no surprise that Pierre is a genetic match to both....

this was Morgan O Brian in 1690 in Ballyphillip Limerick

Thus we know genetic kin to Pierre was living in the 1500s in Limerick....but this seems to be a rather limited DNA lineage of the O Bryans.......most were slightly different in signature........

as this particular DNA lineage entered the Peerage.....and were somewhat supportive of England....These were from the first Earls of thormond:

In order for Pierre to match DNA both names:.....he had to be of the seed of the intermingling of the Butlers and O Bryans.....

Being a member of the British Peerage family of O Bryans would explain a movement of the DNA into France as this lineage was known to have done this.......taking Sir as a title: which was a very non Irish thing to do....

We shall see if further DNA testing bears out this theory

By the way: of the forgotten Hayes.........Pierre still is an excellent match to this family: but no one knows where Abraham Hayes of Fairfield Conneticut actually came from: thus I have not chased it further at this time.......but the likelihood he is an Irish Hayes......given what we otherwise know.










Notify Administrator about this message?
Followups:

Post FollowupReturn to Message ListingsPrint Message

http://genforum.genealogy.com/cyr/messages/2009.html
Search this forum:

Search all of GenForum:

Proximity matching
Add this forum to My GenForum Link to GenForum
Add Forum
Home |  Help |  About Us |  Site Index |  Jobs |  PRIVACY |  Affiliate
© 2009 Ancestry.com