Big changes have come to — all content is now read-only, and member subscriptions and the Shop have been discontinued.
Learn more

Chat | Daily Search | My GenForum | Community Standards | Terms of Service
Jump to Forum
Home: Surnames: Cyr Family Genealogy Forum

Post FollowupReturn to Message ListingsPrint Message

Ancient Norman Surnames Pierres DNA links to
Posted by: v. suzanne sears (ID *****1949) Date: March 28, 2010 at 10:51:16
  of 2274

To varying degrees: here is a list of ancient Norman surnames Pierres DNA will show either close matches to or fairly close:

You can find most of these names easily by punching in William the conqueror and his companions

De Fecamp
De Coleville
De Vernon
De Gael
Fitz William
De la Haye
Lisour and Lisoure and Lesire (various spellings)

There are more current names that can trace back as well but these are the key earliest names..........

Not being a genetic expert: I think even a layman can see that his DNA keeps lining up to one time frame in history and one group of one location in France.

There are also two nobles named De Cirre, Roger and Robert....who show up as fief holders........around 1200AD

The interesting part is that all these surnames have carried on until can find people still in France and certainly in England carrying these names or slight variations of them.

That is what makes Sirre a mystery..........there should indeed be a lineage carrying this surname as well.

There exists LeSieur and LeSueur and LeSire.........but I havent been able to link a specific one to a specific genealogy.........these all show up after the year 1200AD...

Lesueur is the oldest, but this is a mix of the French LeSueurs the shoemakers..........and not genetic Normans.

I have run across the town of Cierrey in Normandy which at one time anciently was named Sirre..........did some people carry this surname.........that is the question

Certainly nearly everyone in Normandy had a geographic name........there are many more ancient people named with their town or parish than there are profession....

I would assume that is because recent Vikings didnt come with any profession but raider.

It is this gap that is a big challenge: the people pre 1200AD surnames and the ones after.

Then of course Sirre if it existed vanished as well in Normandy.

All I can see at the moment is that if it existed in France as a surname it is a very ancient spelling: indicating a very ancient lineage........and very Celt roots.

One can find it as far back in Ireland with Archir a chieftain around the mid 200ADs...........

Cirre and Sirre seemed interchangeable in spelling for many hundreds of years.

But in every case, it was a name NEVER used by persons of lower always is attached to chiefs, lords, etc.

Not as Sire.......the traditional French application......that was common but was just a contraction of Seigneur.......

but of a much higher least originally.

Within 400 years or so it was taken up by Knights......knights did not necessarily own any land.......renters exchange for service.........but it was flexible.

Using the term LORD in the early years was not a matter of no was not as one sees posted from time to time some kind of in one who acts lordly.

Social station was incredibly important: in terms of taxation, freedoms and obligations.........thus it was never unclear in ancient French society where one was on the ladder.

Even schools for children had lists of students who were
Paysans and who were free........

The average serf in France was better off under the Normans, but never truly a freeman either. Freedom was something you inherited most of the time from your parents social station.

And Norman social station was established early on: kin and friends of the Vikings.......more kin than anything else were given land and status.........including positions of Bishop and every other important role.

500 years of Norman history did little to change this.

Thus only during the times slightly before and after Pierres life.....a period of social revolution.....did things begin to open up for the average citizen.

But France had had rules since the late 1400s that every person needed a last name. They were well established by his lifetime.

The answer lies somewhere in the kinship of the blood ties of the families I mentioned above.

Notify Administrator about this message?
No followups yet

Post FollowupReturn to Message ListingsPrint Message
Search this forum:

Search all of GenForum:

Proximity matching
Add this forum to My GenForum Link to GenForum
Add Forum
Home |  Help |  About Us |  Site Index |  Jobs |  PRIVACY |  Affiliate
© 2007 The Generations Network