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Below are my emails from Lorrie White to me, and from me back to her. She thought she solved our blood, but has not. I appreciate her efforts and her research, but make it known to you all that our Thomas and her Nathaniel's son Thomas were not related. One British and one Shawanoe. Read the messages and replies below.
:) Red Wolf
No mystery goes unsolved, just lost for a while, then reveiled in time. Turn the clocks and gain more time for research, and you will find answers. No problrem.
--- On Wed, 5/13/09, lorriewhite007@aol.com <lorriewhite007@aol.com> wrote:
From: lorriewhite007@aol.com <lorriewhite007@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Thomas Christian and his family
To: j_red_wolf@yahoo.com
Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 12:57 AM
Thank you Red Wolf for setting me straight! I had the women mixed up! It is all so interesting and yet so very sad! The white man was so very mean tro the Native people and did not understand them and just wanted to take everything from them! Still a sad part of American History!....... Lorrie
-----Original Message-----
Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:51:19 pm
To: Lorriewhite007@aol.com
From: "J RedWolf" <j_red_wolf@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Thomas Christian and his family
Correction. Ounaconoa Moytoy was Thomas's grandmother. Thomas was a son of Elinipsico, Elinipsico was a son of Cornstalk. Thomas was the orphan son of Elinipsico, he had a native name, but then was taken in by Thomas Mastin who named him Thomas Christian.
Elinipsico had a wife called Standing Deer Bailey. They had 4 young children, all of whom were taken by Thomas Mastin, and raised to adulthood, each given a White name.
Elinipsico was very young man when he had his first child. His woman, Standing Deer died during the birth of their last child, leaving him to raise them alone, so he would have later taken another wife, but he died before doing so. Elinipsico and his father Hokolesqua were the son and father killed in 1777. Elinipsico's son Kumskaka was nearly 7 years old at that time, Kumskaka was the one given the name Thomas Christian by the Thomas Mastin who raised him.
Now is it clear? I do not mean to riddle anyone.
:) Red Wolf
--- On Tue, 5/12/09, Lorriewhite007@aol.com <Lorriewhite00
--- On Tue, 5/12/09, Lorriewhite007@aol.com <Lorriewhite007@aol.com> wrote:
From: Lorriewhite007@aol.com <Lorriewhite007@aol.com>
Subject: Thomas Christian and his family
To: j_red_wolf@yahoo.com
Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 2:29 PM
Good Morning Red Wolf,
My maiden name was Christian and I have been doing our families research. As my father died at age 44 in 1966 from lung cancer. I was 11 yrs old then and my mom remarried and did not keep any of the info for our family history. I am trying to finish the research to join the DAR, although Nathaniel Christian was in the Revolutionary War, he did die during the war and his children were all very young, as his wife Jane died right after him, leaving the children orphans to be raised by other members of the family. So when I heard about the Shawnee raising a child named Thomas Christian, of course I became interested as I was researching a Thomas Christian. As we do not have the orphan records that state who raised which children. I have been in contact with Mary B. Kegley, who wrote many history books from that area of Virginia where we descended from. She has gotten me many of the documents, of course for a fee! :( Do you know of any orphan records that are out there? My husband's family has Cherokee blood in their line, in fact we baptized our children the native way in a stream. Our Aunt who married into my husband's family, is full Chickasaw/Choctaw, last name Watkins, "Trail of Tears", with all their records in the Dawes files! I really wish my line had Native blood, maybe I wouldn't get so sunburned in the Summer. So for that reason alone, I know that your Thomas and our Thomas are definitely two different people. Our line has red hair and pale skin. My hope is to find any orphan records! If you have any knowledge of these files, any help would be appreciated. Your Thomas' mother was Ounaconoa Moytoy, correct? What year was your Thomas born? Who was Thomas' wife and did he have any children. The story of him and his father and the fact that they were killed the way they were, is so sad and wrong! The Native people have not been treated fairly ever!!!!!!!!!! It makes me ill when you hear the descendants of slavery speak about what they think they are owed. In fact, they have it all wrong, they should be happy that it happened, or they would not be living here. The American Indians were the ones who deserve money and more land. I cannot even imagine what they really went through, to see these strange people arriving on their land and taking over! Not right at all!!!!! If you have any other info that might assist in finding the orphan files, would be of great help!
Please keep in touch!
Lorrie
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--- On Mon, 5/11/09, Lorriewhite007@aol.com <Lorriewhite007@aol.com> wrote:
From: Lorriewhite007@aol.com <Lorriewhite007@aol.com>
Subject: Proof of Thomas Christian's father to be Nathaniel/reply
To: j_red_wolf@yahoo.com
Date: Monday, May 11, 2009, 5:02 PM
I have paid someone to dig through the records in Cocke County, Tennessee, regarding the children of Nathaniel and Jane. If I get anything of importance, I'll surely let you know! There could have been many Thomas Christian's back then! Although, Christian was not that common a name. We have the results of our YDNA with a match to Isle of Man Christian's.
84012 C-19 Thomas Christian in VA 1687 R1b1b2 13 24 14 11 11 15 12 12 12 13 13 29
46135 C Christy R1b1b2 13 24 15 10 11 15 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 26 15 19 29 15 15 17 18 11 11 19 23 16 15 18 17 37 38 12 13 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 22 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 13 22 21 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 11
91085 C-21 R Christensen R1b1b2 13 25 14 10 10 15 13 12 11 13 13 30 17 9 10 11 11 24 15 19 30 15 15 16 18 11 13 19 23 15 15 19 18 38 42 11 10
105750 C-22 William Christian, b 1725 Ireland R1b1b2 13 25 14 11 11 13 12 12 12 13 14 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 18 30 15 16 16 17 11 12 19 23 17 16 18 17 38 40 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 21 23 16 10 12 12 15 8 12 25 20 13 12 11 14 11 11 12 12
2171 C-4 Rev. John Christian b 1728 Marown, Isle of Man R1b1b2 14 24 14 11 11 15 12 12 12 13 13 29
50100 C-8 Ewan MacChrysten, b. 1252 Isle of Man R1b1b2 14 24 14 11 11 15 12 12 12 13 13 29 18 9 9 11 11 24 14 19 29 14 15 17 17 11 11 19 19 14 16 18 18 35 36 12 12
Can you answer this for me? Why would a Shawnee name their child Thomas Christian? Who was his mother?
This is all very interesting!
Let's keep in touch!
Lorrie
In a message dated 5/11/2009 12:17:50 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, j_red_wolf@yahoo.com writes:
No proof that they are the same Thomas. You have only proven that Nathaniel had a son named Thomas Christian. The Thomas Bailey Christian who was Shawnee was not in the same county as the Thomas who was a son of Nathaniel at any given time, nor was he as old as that Thomas, not even related. You could say they are both descendants of royalty, but one from Illiam Dhone and one from Indian Cheifs. Either way, they both have important genealogies, but were not the same Thomas Christian. If you can show me something with Thomas Christian (Louisa Harman/Mary Altizer), his children, and one of Nathaniel's PROVEN descendants living together, or connected by some affidavit or other documented record, I might consider the possibility ther were the same Thomas, but until such proof is demonstrated, I shall remain with my beliefs, just as others have done on their own research. False information can be passed by word of mouth as well as by paper documents, so be sure to evaluate and understand each document completely before trusting it as truth of the situation you are trying to make it fit with. A puzzle can only go together if the pieces are from the same set.
:) Red Wolf
--- On Sun, 5/3/09, Lorriewhite007@aol.com <Lorriewhite007@aol.com> wrote:
From: Lorriewhite007@aol.com <Lorriewhite007@aol.com>
Subject: Proof of Thomas Christian's father to be Nathaniel
To: j_red_wolf@yahoo.com, pranddr@earthlink.net
Date: Sunday, May 3, 2009, 5:49 PM
Hello Fellow Researchers,
I have been reading your postings in 2008, regarding Thomas Christian and who he descends from.
I descend from Anthony Christian who was the brother of Thomas Christian. I have evidence in the way of many documents that prove through the courts that Nathaniel Christian was indeed the father of Isham Christian, Thomas Christian and Anthony Christian. I have been working on this with Mary B. Kegley, who authored many historic books in the Virginia area. I recently paid her to get me these original documents.
Now she believes the story went like this, Nathaniel Christian married Jane Adair in 1754, she was the daughter of James Adair. I have an original copy of a deed that shows James Adair gave 400 acres to Nathaniel to use for farming. Now Nathaniel did go into the Revolutionary War and served under Capt Joseph Cloyd and Capt McCorkle. I have the list that proves he swore allegiance to the Montgomery Militia in 1777. Then Nathaniel died Feb 1779, I have the document that was filed in the courts with Daniel Trigg, McCorkle, etc as witnesses. Family story has it that Ensign Nathaniel Christian was leading a group of men when he came under Indian attack, which killed him. I have the document dated 2 March 1779, witnessed by Nathaniel's commanding Officer James McCorkle. That gives executive power to his wife Jane Christian, because Nathaniel left no will. The other document shows a list of the items that were surveyed and certified. Now these are all copies from the originals, but there is stories that the children were indeed farmed out to family members. As far as it being Chief Cornstalk, I am not aware of this. Our family has our results of our male YDNA listed through www.ftdna.com Project name Christian.
I have attached four documents for you to take a look at. The first two are documents filed in 1790 after the death of Jane, the mother. The third document is the Militia List from Mary B. Kegley's book, that lists Nathaniel Christian as taking the oath. The fourth document is from www.footnote.com and is the Militia Muster Roster that shows Nathaniel listed as an Ensign. (Third row number 25 down on the right) The document is weathered in the fold, but all other names are verified from Mary B. Kegley and her book about the Militia.
I have other originial documents, but they are way too large to scan into the computer. If you are interested and if I have proven enough to you, then send me your addresses and I will make copies for your records.
As for the children being orphaned, this is true, and they were farmed out. But until I just read the postings of both of you, I had never heard of this prior. It does bring for an interesting subject. On my husbands side, the White's did have indian blood, that was Cherokee.
So I guess this gives me another thing to research.
I look forward to hearing from you!
Lorrie Christian White
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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--- On Sun, 5/3/09, Lorriewhite007@aol.com <Lorriewhite007@aol.com> wrote:
From: Lorriewhite007@aol.com <Lorriewhite007@aol.com>
Subject: Proof of Thomas Christian's father to be Nathaniel
To: j_red_wolf@yahoo.com, pranddr@earthlink.net
Date: Sunday, May 3, 2009, 5:49 PM
Hello Fellow Researchers,
I have been reading your postings in 2008, regarding Thomas Christian and who he descends from.
I descend from Anthony Christian who was the brother of Thomas Christian. I have evidence in the way of many documents that prove through the courts that Nathaniel Christian was indeed the father of Isham Christian, Thomas Christian and Anthony Christian. I have been working on this with Mary B. Kegley, who authored many historic books in the Virginia area. I recently paid her to get me these original documents.
Now she believes the story went like this, Nathaniel Christian married Jane Adair in 1754, she was the daughter of James Adair. I have an original copy of a deed that shows James Adair gave 400 acres to Nathaniel to use for farming. Now Nathaniel did go into the Revolutionary War and served under Capt Joseph Cloyd and Capt McCorkle. I have the list that proves he swore allegiance to the Montgomery Militia in 1777. Then Nathaniel died Feb 1779, I have the document that was filed in the courts with Daniel Trigg, McCorkle, etc as witnesses. Family story has it that Ensign Nathaniel Christian was leading a group of men when he came under Indian attack, which killed him. I have the document dated 2 March 1779, witnessed by Nathaniel's commanding Officer James McCorkle. That gives executive power to his wife Jane Christian, because Nathaniel left no will. The other document shows a list of the items that were surveyed and certified. Now these are all copies from the originals, but there is stories that the children were indeed farmed out to family members. As far as it being Chief Cornstalk, I am not aware of this. Our family has our results of our male YDNA listed through www.ftdna.com Project name Christian.
I have attached four documents for you to take a look at. The first two are documents filed in 1790 after the death of Jane, the mother. The third document is the Militia List from Mary B. Kegley's book, that lists Nathaniel Christian as taking the oath. The fourth document is from www.footnote.com and is the Militia Muster Roster that shows Nathaniel listed as an Ensign. (Third row number 25 down on the right) The document is weathered in the fold, but all other names are verified from Mary B. Kegley and her book about the Militia.
I have other originial documents, but they are way too large to scan into the computer. If you are interested and if I have proven enough to you, then send me your addresses and I will make copies for your records.
As for the children being orphaned, this is true, and they were farmed out. But until I just read the postings of both of you, I had never heard of this prior. It does bring for an interesting subject. On my husbands side, the White's did have indian blood, that was Cherokee.
So I guess this gives me another thing to research.
I look forward to hearing from you!
Lorrie Christian White
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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