Posted By:Susan Scarcella
Email:
Subject:Re: Prophet Mohammed's Descendants to Today
Post Date:February 21, 2010 at 12:23:42
Message URL:http://genforum.genealogy.com/indonesia/messages/610.html
Forum:Indonesia Genealogy Forum
Forum URL:http://genforum.genealogy.com/indonesia/

I am not disputing the supposed many royal descents from Muhammad that go through European royalty. I am on the tail end of many of those charts, as I descend from Charlemagne through most of Europe's royalty (all documented) but the claimed descent from Muhammad through Elizabeth/Zaida does not hold up for the reasons I told you. Elizabeth's parentage is unproven and the daughter through whom the descent purportedly comes is not hers anyway.
I am not claiming anything demanding. European royal descents ARE documented. But the descents from Muhammad are NOT, sadly. There are gaps that cannot be solved as yet (perhaps in the future, who knows?). As you know, Muhammad had only one daughter through whom descent comes, whereas Charlemagne, just a little later in history, had many children, both male and female. And Europeans recorded both male and female descents, rearding them as important, while Arabs did not regard female descents as important. Hence many of the descents from Muhammad would have been ignored in documentary evidence, if it existed.
As for descents from non europeans, I have no doubt that they exist...but they cannot be proven to genealogical standards. You need documentary proof. Lists of names are not proof. Dynastic claims are not proof. Many Mormons produce descents from Adam- complete with 'proofs'. While we all know EVERYONE descends from Adam, their 'proofs' are pure fantasy. The claims do not hold up.
I know that you, as a Muslim, want to believe that there are proven descents from Muhammad, but there are none, my friend. There are descents, but none proven. I would like to think that I have descents from Muhammad, but, although I have many descents from royal families from Europe to Asia, I cannot prove a descent from Muhammad.
eg I have a line from the Alderetes of Tordesilla in Spain. They were North African in descent and noble. I have no doubt they claimed kinship to Muhammad, as many of the Andalusian nobility did, but there is no proof.
I have proven descents from Georgian, Armenian and Byzantine royalty. I am sure that somewhere on those lines is a family that claims descent from Muhammad, but, like my possible descent from the Han Dynasty of China, it cannot be proven, sadly.
You can wish, you can hope, you can dream of great lineages, my friend, but, to be a true genealogist, you have to be able to prove it beyond all doubt with documentary evidence, and,there is none for descents from Muhammad.Not even in Arabic areas- they do not have the documentary evidence to back it up, just oral and lists of names. They MAY be true, but they cannot be PROVEN.