Posted By:John Bush
Subject:Ancestry and descendants of Elizabeth Hartwell, T2
Post Date:September 10, 2011 at 14:26:55
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Forum:Hartwell Family Genealogy Forum
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Elizabeth Hartwell is part of my direct maternal line (mother to mother) that goes back 12 generations to Elizabeth Hartwell, wife of Richard Cocke, and her mother, also called Elizabeth, who was the wife first of John Hartwell and afterward of Ralph Green, by both of whom she apparently had children. However the maiden surname of Elizabeth Hartwell's mother is unknown. What is known (through mitochondrial DNA testing done on me) is that her haplogroup is T2, which encompasses about 10% of people from the British Isles. This testing may eventually lead to the identification of Elizabeth LNU's ancestors in Britain. In this regard MTDNA testing at shows two families of interest to me. But one must look at the GEDCOM files attached to the DNA info at, if any, to realize this. Test results that do not have a GEDCOM file attached are essentially useless for genealogical purposes. For that reason I uploaded my own GEDCOM file, not to help me, but to help others (who may in turn help me). Unfortunately, the GEDCOMs at only go back nine generations at most (for those who have traced their families back even that far), but the generations I am interested in go back 12 or 13 generations to the original immigrants at Jamestown and those who settled in Virginia within the first 50 years of its settlement. So when one is looking at the GEDCOM, one must at least do a quick Google search to see if the last pair of ancestors shown can be pushed back farther. Here is how it works. Becky Kay Cloud posted a GEDCOM that goes back to Elizabeth Patience Iverson and her mother, "Mary." Leaving aside for the moment the question whether Ms. Cloud's information is accurate or not, can it be at least tentatively traced back farther? Not yet. So we know that is the end of the line, even though it is an old "Virginia" line. John Maurice Bailey has a New England line that goes back to Nathan Bowen (510) and Mary Mason(511). At first that might not seem important. But I was aware when I saw this information that there is a line of Hartwells that settled in New England. Whether they are related to my Hartwells or not, I do not yet know. But out of curiosity I decided to see if there might be a connection, and since I am interested in the T2 line of Mary Mason, that is the line I most wanted to follow. It turns out that Mary Mason is probably the daughter of Isaac Mason and Susannah Myles. So then I wanted to check out Susannah. She is the daughter of John Myles and Anne Humphrey. Anne Humphrey has noble lineage, and it traces back through several interesting families to Elizabeth Tilney (and even to Elizabeth's grandmother, Ida de Grey). Elizabeth Tilney will be well known to those who research late medieval and early renaissance noble genealogy. Furthermore, if (and maybe it is a big IF) the pedigree is correct, this means that Elizabeth Tilney was herself T2. One can trace down the descendants of Elizabeth Tilney through many well known English families and come up with possible family names to which our T2 ancestor, Elizabeth LNU may connect. This is still tough to do, of course, because the wives take the surnames of their husbands in each generation, and sometimes the maiden names are not known today. That is why GEDCOMs and other pedigrees are so important. Of course, my "Elizabeth LNU" may not descend Elizabeth Tilney at all. So far there is a two or three generation "gap" between some of the lines of descent from Elizabeth Tilney and the time that Elizabeth LNU was born (about 1625). There are certainly hundreds or even thousands of collateral lines going back thousands of years, even if they share the same mitochondrial DNA. We have insufficient information to know. But it gives one a working theory, a framework for possible research, as many families who sent immigrants to America were related to each other in one way or another. I have even seen a reference somewhere to Elizabeth Patience Iverson being a daughter of a noble family, although I have misplaced the reference. Perhaps that little nugget will stimulate further research. For those who would like to know if they connect to the Elizabeth Hartwell line, the following mothers, in sequence, are: Martha Cocke, married Joseph Pleasants; Elizabeth Pleasants, married John Merryman; Mary Merryman, married John Rutherford; Tabitha Rutherford, married Joseph Matthews; Polly Matthews, married Guy Lee; Elvira G. Lee, married David M. Johnson; Elizabeth Johnson, married Thomas Palmer; Angeline Palmer, married Manville Young; Ella B. Young, married Thomas B. Garner; and Mary Nola Garner, married Luther B. Deaton. Nola was my grandmother. Additional daughters of course branch off this line from several of the nodes.