Posted By:Carolyn La Porte
Email:
Subject:Re: Thomas & Miriam Spencer. UK to Montreal in 1949 on ship 'Empress of France'.
Post Date:April 07, 2013 at 18:03:24
Message URL:http://genforum.genealogy.com/canada/montreal/messages/1952.html
Forum:Montreal, Canada Genealogy Forum
Forum URL:http://genforum.genealogy.com/canada/montreal/

Hi Paula,

I only found a wee bit for you.

Miriam Spencer made a trip back to London in 1953 aboard the 'SCYTHIA'

Looks like she travelled alone. She is age 45, a clerk, living in Canada (does not say where in Canada)
she is going to
48 Hillmarton Rd., Holloway, London

** this is the same address that was shown for she and Thomas when they came to Canada in 1949 - as last residence so maybe where one of their parent's lived ?

UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960 about Miriam Spencer
Name:       Miriam Spencer
Birth Date:       abt 1908
Age:       45
Port of Departure:       Quebec, Canada
Arrival Date:       30 May 1953
Port of Arrival:       Southampton, England
Ports of Voyage:       Quebec
[Le Havre]
Ship Name:       Scythia
Search Ship Database:       View the 'Scythia' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line:       Cunard Steamship Company Ltd
Official Number:       143730

******************************

This shows her departure as Quebec, but that does not mean she lived in Quebec - many folks left from there after travelling to Quebec by train from their homes.

As the last available census for Canada in 1911 I cannot look for them that way.

You only mentioned Miriam as SPENCER - no maiden name. There is a marriage which I suspect is them

ENGLAND & WALES MARRIAGE INDEX for 1916-2005
has Thomas R. SPENCER and Miriam A. HOARE married in Islington, London in Oct/Nov/Dec/ quarter of 1937



England & Wales, Marriage Index, 1916-2005 about Thomas R Spencer
Name:       Thomas R Spencer
Spouse Surname:       Hoare
Date of Registration:       Oct-Nov-Dec 1937
Registration district:       Islington
Inferred County:       London
Volume Number:       1b
Page Number:       317



England & Wales, Marriage Index, 1916-2005 about Miriam A Hoare
Name:       Miriam A Hoare
Spouse Surname:       Spencer
Date of Registration:       Oct-Nov-Dec 1937
Registration district:       Islington
Inferred County:       London
Volume Number:       1b
Page Number:       317

AND

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Miriam Annie Hoare
Name:       Miriam Annie Hoare
Date of Registration:       Jul-Aug-Sep 1908
Registration district:       Islington
Inferred County:       London
Volume:       1b
Page:       248

1911 BARNSBURY, ISLINGTON, LONDON, ENGLAND
17 BINGFIELD ST. CALEDONIAN RD., ISLINGTON
HOARE

Richard, age 57, railway goods checker, born Uplyme, Devonshire

Margaret, age 42, married 6 years, 1 child born 1 child living, born Hett, Gloucester (in brackets it says Cheltenham, Gloucester)

Sidney Harry, age 23, railway carman, son, born London

Miriam Annie, age 3, daughter, born London

*** next to Richard it shows married 6 years 1 child born 13 living - and all is crossed out - supposed to be line for wife I guess, but I wonder if he and his first wife had 13 children??

1911 is the latest English census so cannot find Miriam in census after that.

1901 CAMDEN TOWN, ST. PANCRAS, ST. PAUL, LONDON, ENGLAND
HOARE

Richard,a ge 47, railway goods checker, born Uplyme, Devonshire

Emily, age 53, wife, born Salisbury, Wiltshire

Bessie E. A., age 20, daughter, born London

Sidney H., age 14, son, born London

**********

1891 KENTISH TOWN, PANCRAS, ST. PAUL, LONDON, ENGLAND
HOARE

Richard, age 38, railway goods checker, born Uplyme, Devonshire

Emily, age 40, wife, born Salisbury, Wilts.

John M., age 12, son born Islington, London

Bessie E. A. age 10, daughter, born St. Pancras, London

Sidney H., age 3, son, born Islington, London

*****************

1881 KENTISH TOWN, PANCRAS, ST. PANCRAS, LONDON, ENGLAND
HOARE

Richard, age 28, railway porter, born Uplyme, Devonshire

Emily, age 32, wife, dressmaker, born Floherton, Wiltshire

John M., age 3, son born Islington, Middlesex

Bessie E. A. , age 6 months, born St. Pancras, Middlesex

****************

1871 LYME, AXMINSTER, EXETER, UPLYME, DEVON, ENGLAND
HOARE

John, age 58, cordwainer, born Musbury, Devon

Harriett, age 60, wife, laundress, born Uplyme, Devon

Mary Ann, age 19, daughter, laundress, born Uplyme, Devon

Richard, age 17, son, cordwainer, born Uplyme, Devon
****************************

1861 LYME, AXMINSTER, EXETER, UPLYME, DEVON, ENGLAND
HOARE
John, age 49, cordwainer, born Musbury, Devon

Harriet, age 50, wife, laundress, born Uplyme, Devon

Elizabeth, age 18, daughter, laundress

Harriet Ann, age 16, daughter

Thomas H., age 14, son, Ap.

John B., age 12, son, shop boy

Mary Ann, age 9, daughter

Richard, age 7, son

all the children born Uplyme, Devon

*******************

Richard died in 1920 London

England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2006 about Richard Hoare
Name:       Richard Hoare
Birth Date:       abt 1854
Date of Registration:       Oct-Nov-Dec 1920
Age at Death:       66
Registration district:       Islington
Inferred County:       London
Volume:       1b
Page:       310

I'm not sure about Margaret - Richard's wife as there are several deaths for women of the same name born about same year

also for Emily HOARE - first wife of Richard - there is a death for a woman of that name who died in St. Pancras in 1905 so may be her

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915 about Emily Hoare
Name:       Emily Hoare
Estimated Birth Year:       abt 1850
Date of Registration:       Oct-Nov-Dec 1905
Age at Death:       55
Registration district:       St Pancras
Inferred County:       London
Volume:       1b

*** there is a marriage for a Richard Hoare in 1874 Poplar , London and choice of wives are mary Agnes Coughlin OR Emily Cox

so this could be Richard and Emily

and there is a marriage for a Richard Hoare 1906 Islington - choices of wives Emily Dunn and Margaret Webb so could be Richard and 2nd wife Margaret ??

It seems odd that there is nothing to be found for either Thomas or Miriam after her trip back to UK in 1953

This looks like it fits for Thomas as his grandmother is surnamed ROBINSON

1911 SOUTH SHIELDS, DURHAM, ENGLAND
7 KEPPEL ST.
SPENCER

Joseph J., age 35, coal miner hewer, born Southwick, Durham

Margaret, age 33, wife, born Ryehope, Durhan. married 5 years, 4 children born 4 living

John, age 13, son born Holburn, Durham

ROBINSON

Nellie, age 13, daughter born South Shields

SPENCER

Dorothy, age 5, daughter born Southshields

Joseph, age 3, son born Southshields

Thomas, age 2, son born Southshields

Robert, age 1, son born Southshields

ROBINSON
Ann, age 70, mother in law, widow, born Sunderland, Durham

1901 SOUTH SHIELDS,S T. MARK, DURHAM, ENGLAND
SPENCER
Joseph J., age 25, coal mine hewer, born Sunderland, Durham

Ely, age 22, wife, born Byers Green, Durham

John, age 3, son born Hebburn, Durham

******************

here is marriage for Joseph and Margaret

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915 about Joseph Josiah Spencer
Name:       Joseph Josiah Spencer
Date of Registration:       Oct-Nov-Dec 1905
Registration district:       South Shields
Inferred County:       Durham
Volume Number:       10a
Page Number:       1323


England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915 about Margaret Robinson
Name:       Margaret Robinson
Date of Registration:       Oct-Nov-Dec 1905
Registration district:       South Shields
Inferred County:       Durham
Volume Number:       10a

There is a birth for a Nellie Robinson in Stockton, Durham 1898 which matches for age from 1911 census, but I cannot find Nellie in 1901 census

I looked for death of Joseph's first wife Ely (from 1901 census) and there is an Elizabeth Spencer who died 1904 South Shields - she is right age to be Ely

also when I went back and looked at the 1901 census - she is listed in index as Ely and at first glance that is what it looks like in image, but it may be Elz.

Joseph Josiah Spencer married in 1897 South Shields and two choices for wife are
Jane Ann McClenn and Elizabeth Cooper so I think Ely is Elz - Elizabeth

I'm sorry I have not found anything on Thomas and Miriam in Canada

Carolyn L