More on Parents of John Canterbury-b.1760 VA
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In reply to:
Re: Parents of John Canterbury-b.1760 VA
Ida Ellison 7/18/99
More on parents of John Canterbury(b1760) – Joseph Canterbury Sr and Ruth Simms
Believe Ruth Simms, who you mention, wife of a Canterbury, was the wife of Joseph Canterbury Sr., just as your source does, for the following reasons:
Believe Ruth Simms, who you mention, wife of a Canterbury, was the wife of Joseph Canterbury Sr., just as your source does, for the following reasons:1. Ruth, wife of 1st John Canterbury(d1716) would have been too old to be this Ruth.
1. Ruth, wife of 1st John Canterbury(d1716) would have been too old to be this Ruth.2. The odds that 2 different Ruth Canterbury’s (that is, Ruth’s who married Canterbury’s) lived in same area and about same age would be slim.According to the book “Amherst County, Virginia, in the Revolution” p.62, states “Ruth Canterberry the wife of Joseph Canterberry… poor soldiers in the Continental Army” shows who Ruth’s husband was.The only other Ruth Canterbury mentioned in this time frame is Ruth who is head of a household in the Rockingham County tax list of 1787 – most likely a widow, since few women lived on their own on the frontier without a husband at that time unless they were a widow.Would indicate both Ruth’s are one in the same person.
2. The odds that 2 different Ruth Canterbury’s (that is, Ruth’s who married Canterbury’s) lived in same area and about same age would be slim.According to the book “Amherst County, Virginia, in the Revolution” p.62, states “Ruth Canterberry the wife of Joseph Canterberry… poor soldiers in the Continental Army” shows who Ruth’s husband was.The only other Ruth Canterbury mentioned in this time frame is Ruth who is head of a household in the Rockingham County tax list of 1787 – most likely a widow, since few women lived on their own on the frontier without a husband at that time unless they were a widow.Would indicate both Ruth’s are one in the same person.3. Joseph Canterbury Jr., son of this Joseph Sr. and Ruth, made a petition for a pension 12/21/1825 in Giles county (next to Monroe county) for his service in the Revolution in the 6th Va infantry, obviously a neighbor of John Canterbury (1760).Ref. “Virginia soldiers of the American Revolution” Vol. 1, p.83 by H. Eckenrode.
3. Joseph Canterbury Jr., son of this Joseph Sr. and Ruth, made a petition for a pension 12/21/1825 in Giles county (next to Monroe county) for his service in the Revolution in the 6th Va infantry, obviously a neighbor of John Canterbury (1760).Ref. “Virginia soldiers of the American Revolution” Vol. 1, p.83 by H. Eckenrode.4. Desertion issue:
a. Ruth Canterbury of Amherst, is last listed in Amherst in October 1778 receiving aid as wife of a poor soldier in the Continetal Army – p.62 of book in item 2 above.Likely she wouldn’tbe receiving aid if he had been shot as a deserter before that date.
b. No reference for Joseph Canterbury Sr. after Sept 1777 muster roll – could have been MIA at that time and still considered alive so his wife could receive aid.Prisoners of the English didn’t fair well, one book estimated at least 11,500 Americans died in English POW camps during the Revolution (p.296 of “Liberty” by Thomas Fleming).
c. Couldn’t locate a reference where soldiers in the American army where shot – flogging yes, but shooting was not a method of punishment used per records I found.Reference 1.“Calendar of Virginia state Papers” Vol.1 pgs 579-581.2.“The American Revolution 1775-1783 – an Encyclopedia”Vol.1 p. 463 under the heading “Desertion in the Continental Army” by Richard Blanco.Same reference estimates desertion rate was as high as 25% in the American army – farmers had to take care of their families etc.Also, men who signed up justfor a bounty and then deserted within a couple days and repeated the process numerous times weren’t listed as being shot when being caught.
d. The last desertion record for the father Joseph Sr. recorded in the muster records states he deserted Capt Samuel Cabells’ company of the 6th Va on June 16, 1777.His son Joseph Jr. had deserted May 23, 1777 per another muster record.Both Joseph Sr. and Jr. were transferred to Capt Alexander Rose’s (of Amherst) company of the 6th Va Inf.in August of 1777 per muster records.Interestingly, John Rose of Amherst was the one that provided food etc. to Ruth Canterbury - p 61 of book referenced in item 2 above.
e. Ruth Canterbury’s maiden name is given as Simms per Ida Mae Ellisons source.Coincidently, Lt. Col Charles Simms was in command of the 6th Va., effective Sept 1777 – he may have orchestrated the transfer of the Canterbury men to a company with a more understanding captain.
f. Young Capt Cabell, who was quick to note their desertions, even having a newspaper print up Joseph Jr’s desertion on 9/16/1776 (p.16, book in item 2 above), was pulled out of William and Mary College by his father to head this company of frontier rifleman.Cabell’s life was one of a privileged, plantation background (reference book in item 2 above) – in sharp contrast to farmers’/frontiersman of the Canterbury’s background (Ruth was listed as poor and the Amherst company was given as frontiersman, per 6th Va infantry reenactment group on the WEB).Likely young Cabell did threaten to shoot the Canterbury men for desertions (they always came back to the regiment however).Apparently this matter came to a head, for we find they were transfered to another company in August of 1777 (weren’t gone long either, Joseph Jr. in late May and Joseph Sr. in mid- June – back by August 4th) to that of Capt Alexander Rose’s company- documented in the 6th Va muster records.No desertions are listed after this date for the Canterbury’s.
a. Ruth Canterbury of Amherst, is last listed in Amherst in October 1778 receiving aid as wife of a poor soldier in the Continetal Army – p.62 of book in item 2 above.Likely she wouldn’tbe receiving aid if he had been shot as a deserter before that date.
b. No reference for Joseph Canterbury Sr. after Sept 1777 muster roll – could have been MIA at that time and still considered alive so his wife could receive aid.Prisoners of the English didn’t fair well, one book estimated at least 11,500 Americans died in English POW camps during the Revolution (p.296 of “Liberty” by Thomas Fleming).
c. Couldn’t locate a reference where soldiers in the American army where shot – flogging yes, but shooting was not a method of punishment used per records I found.Reference 1.“Calendar of Virginia state Papers” Vol.1 pgs 579-581.2.“The American Revolution 1775-1783 – an Encyclopedia”Vol.1 p. 463 under the heading “Desertion in the Continental Army” by Richard Blanco.Same reference estimates desertion rate was as high as 25% in the American army – farmers had to take care of their families etc.Also, men who signed up justfor a bounty and then deserted within a couple days and repeated the process numerous times weren’t listed as being shot when being caught.
d. The last desertion record for the father Joseph Sr. recorded in the muster records states he deserted Capt Samuel Cabells’ company of the 6th Va on June 16, 1777.His son Joseph Jr. had deserted May 23, 1777 per another muster record.Both Joseph Sr. and Jr. were transferred to Capt Alexander Rose’s (of Amherst) company of the 6th Va Inf.in August of 1777 per muster records.Interestingly, John Rose of Amherst was the one that provided food etc. to Ruth Canterbury - p 61 of book referenced in item 2 above.
e. Ruth Canterbury’s maiden name is given as Simms per Ida Mae Ellisons source.Coincidently, Lt. Col Charles Simms was in command of the 6th Va., effective Sept 1777 – he may have orchestrated the transfer of the Canterbury men to a company with a more understanding captain.
f. Young Capt Cabell, who was quick to note their desertions, even having a newspaper print up Joseph Jr’s desertion on 9/16/1776 (p.16, book in item 2 above), was pulled out of William and Mary College by his father to head this company of frontier rifleman.Cabell’s life was one of a privileged, plantation background (reference book in item 2 above) – in sharp contrast to farmers’/frontiersman of the Canterbury’s background (Ruth was listed as poor and the Amherst company was given as frontiersman, per 6th Va infantry reenactment group on the WEB).Likely young Cabell did threaten to shoot the Canterbury men for desertions (they always came back to the regiment however).Apparently this matter came to a head, for we find they were transfered to another company in August of 1777 (weren’t gone long either, Joseph Jr. in late May and Joseph Sr. in mid- June – back by August 4th) to that of Capt Alexander Rose’s company- documented in the 6th Va muster records.No desertions are listed after this date for the Canterbury’s.
5. Simms connection:from Ida Mae source Ruth’s maiden name was Simms.The commander of the 6th VA wasLt. Col. Charles Simms – from IGI records and WEB family pages, his father grandfather was Alexander Simms and a wife with first name of Ruth (believe Ruth Simms wife of Joseph Sr, was one of their daughters andCharles Simms aunt).Back to Charles Simms, his wife was Nancy Douglas.Per the Family Search IGI, her brother was Samuel Douglas and father was William.Interestingly, John Canterbury (1760) substituted for a Samuel Douglas in the Revolution in 1780 per John’s pension declaration.Though the IGI is not always complete, it lists only 1 Samuel Douglas in Va in this time frame – he had a father William Douglas.Would indicate that Nancy Douglas, wife of Lt. Col Simms (she was from Fairfax county) had a brother Samuel, who hired John Canterbury(1760) as a substitute.This would show that John Canterbury had a connection with the 6th Va Joseph Canterbury Sr also.
5. Simms connection:from Ida Mae source Ruth’s maiden name was Simms.The commander of the 6th VA wasLt. Col. Charles Simms – from IGI records and WEB family pages, his father grandfather was Alexander Simms and a wife with first name of Ruth (believe Ruth Simms wife of Joseph Sr, was one of their daughters andCharles Simms aunt).Back to Charles Simms, his wife was Nancy Douglas.Per the Family Search IGI, her brother was Samuel Douglas and father was William.Interestingly, John Canterbury (1760) substituted for a Samuel Douglas in the Revolution in 1780 per John’s pension declaration.Though the IGI is not always complete, it lists only 1 Samuel Douglas in Va in this time frame – he had a father William Douglas.Would indicate that Nancy Douglas, wife of Lt. Col Simms (she was from Fairfax county) had a brother Samuel, who hired John Canterbury(1760) as a substitute.This would show that John Canterbury had a connection with the 6th Va Joseph Canterbury Sr also.6. Ruth Canterbury of Rockingham county.After being listed on the tax rolls in 1787, their were 4 more references to a Canterbury inRockingham county court records, listing a Canterbury (no first name) in a court summons from 6/23/1788 thru 5/26/1789, no record that this Canterbury ever appeared in answer to the summons (Commonwealth of Va was the plaintiff, no reason given for summons).Since the Canterbury never appeared per the court records, may have moved or died – this could be Ruth Canterbury, especially if she went with her son John(1760) to Monroe – or if she had died.
6. Ruth Canterbury of Rockingham county.After being listed on the tax rolls in 1787, their were 4 more references to a Canterbury inRockingham county court records, listing a Canterbury (no first name) in a court summons from 6/23/1788 thru 5/26/1789, no record that this Canterbury ever appeared in answer to the summons (Commonwealth of Va was the plaintiff, no reason given for summons).Since the Canterbury never appeared per the court records, may have moved or died – this could be Ruth Canterbury, especially if she went with her son John(1760) to Monroe – or if she had died.7. Levi Lowe, brother of Nancy Lowe (wife of John Canterbury), married in Rockingham county on 12/17/1785 to Sarah Kincaid.15 days latter he had another ceremony in Greenbrier county – both ceremonies given by Rev. John Alderson.Levi and you would have to assume his sister, lived for some time in Rockingham county before moving to Greenbrier.Reference Bill Bailey’s work on the Lowe family of Monroe.Would indicate that John Canterbury (1760) was tied to Rockingham, quite possibly that Ruth Canterbury was his mother.Side note, Rev Alderson had a church in Rockingham and in Greenbrier where he performed weddings and services – there weren’t a lot of churches on the frontier at that time.
7. Levi Lowe, brother of Nancy Lowe (wife of John Canterbury), married in Rockingham county on 12/17/1785 to Sarah Kincaid.15 days latter he had another ceremony in Greenbrier county – both ceremonies given by Rev. John Alderson.Levi and you would have to assume his sister, lived for some time in Rockingham county before moving to Greenbrier.Reference Bill Bailey’s work on the Lowe family of Monroe.Would indicate that John Canterbury (1760) was tied to Rockingham, quite possibly that Ruth Canterbury was his mother.Side note, Rev Alderson had a church in Rockingham and in Greenbrier where he performed weddings and services – there weren’t a lot of churches on the frontier at that time.8. A Joseph Canterbury is listed in the militia company of Capt Hugh Caperton (side note, if you descend from J.W. Canterbury and Alice Caperton, thenHugh is a direct ancestor of yours as well) dated 5/17/1793, with Joseph as being from Montgomery county.Reference “Calender of State Papers-VA” p. 382-384 Vol.6.This appears to be the same Joseph Canterbury Jr. who was later listed in Giles county (Giles was formed partially from Montgomery) in his 1825 pension document.See item 3 above.
8. A Joseph Canterbury is listed in the militia company of Capt Hugh Caperton (side note, if you descend from J.W. Canterbury and Alice Caperton, thenHugh is a direct ancestor of yours as well) dated 5/17/1793, with Joseph as being from Montgomery county.Reference “Calender of State Papers-VA” p. 382-384 Vol.6.This appears to be the same Joseph Canterbury Jr. who was later listed in Giles county (Giles was formed partially from Montgomery) in his 1825 pension document.See item 3 above.9. John Canterbury(1760) listed several names he served under in his pension declaration.One of these was a Moses Looney.Few Looney’s in Va and in the Revolution, one John Looney was in the 6th Va infantry at the first part of the war, reference p. 143 of book in item 2 above.
9. John Canterbury(1760) listed several names he served under in his pension declaration.One of these was a Moses Looney.Few Looney’s in Va and in the Revolution, one John Looney was in the 6th Va infantry at the first part of the war, reference p. 143 of book in item 2 above.10. It’s obvious John Canterbury(1760) moved a lot in his early years per his declaration; also county lines changed and new counties formed a lot in this time of Virginia’s growth. So, even though John doesn’t mention Amherst county in his declaration, he mentions Montgomery and appears to be guessing on the counties at times (one time says born in Prince William, other in Fairfax, not a problem with given the fluid lines of the counties at that time – reference Charles Neely’s write-up on the Canterbury’s on John’s birthplace.)
10. It’s obvious John Canterbury(1760) moved a lot in his early years per his declaration; also county lines changed and new counties formed a lot in this time of Virginia’s growth. So, even though John doesn’t mention Amherst county in his declaration, he mentions Montgomery and appears to be guessing on the counties at times (one time says born in Prince William, other in Fairfax, not a problem with given the fluid lines of the counties at that time – reference Charles Neely’s write-up on the Canterbury’s on John’s birthplace.)11. More on the Simms connection – Charles Simms father was Alexander Simms and the IGI only lists this Alexander as probably the one who had married a Ruth_____ and had a daughter Elizabeth in 1725 in Maryland – Prince George county, next to Charles county MD, where Nancy Lowe, wife of John was from – another possible connection with John Canterbury(1760) and Joseph Canterbury Sr. and Ruth Simms.
11. More on the Simms connection – Charles Simms father was Alexander Simms and the IGI only lists this Alexander as probably the one who had married a Ruth_____ and had a daughter Elizabeth in 1725 in Maryland – Prince George county, next to Charles county MD, where Nancy Lowe, wife of John was from – another possible connection with John Canterbury(1760) and Joseph Canterbury Sr. and Ruth Simms.Obviously there is a lot of material here on John (1760) parents – to me it indicates that Joseph Canterbury Sr. and Ruth Simms where his parents, though nothing as conclusive as a will exists to prove that positively, that I know of.However, the related and circumstantial evidence givenmakes a powerful case in proving these are his parents in my mind, barring any new facts that may become available proving to the contrary.Would like to see evidence used to prove other individuals may be his parents.
Obviously there is a lot of material here on John (1760) parents – to me it indicates that Joseph Canterbury Sr. and Ruth Simms where his parents, though nothing as conclusive as a will exists to prove that positively, that I know of.However, the related and circumstantial evidence givenmakes a powerful case in proving these are his parents in my mind, barring any new facts that may become available proving to the contrary.Would like to see evidence used to prove other individuals may be his parents.Any comments or further information proving/disproving the suggested parents of John Canterbury(1760) are welcomed.
Any comments or further information proving/disproving the suggested parents of John Canterbury(1760) are welcomed.Robert WM Canterbury- [email protected]