Re: JUDITH BUTLER of Ballintemple, Co. Carlow, Ireland
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In reply to:
Re: JUDITH BUTLER of Ballintemple, Co. Carlow, Ireland
Douglas Tennant 2/04/07
I Googled around last evening at home on SIR RICHARD BUTLER, PIERCE’s father, to try to find the complete list of all ten of his children, which he was alleged to have had - to once again see if I could find a solid nexus between “my” JUDITH BUTLER, his “presumed” daughter, and SIR RICHARD himself.There are several “Pier listings” I found, but most were clearly inaccurate or incomplete (they list Pierce’s death as “1810”, which we know is wrong), and only listed 1-2 daughters (and I have found repeated references to there being 6 daughters and 4 sons, for a total of 10 children – see attached letter below).Far better genealogists and researchers than I have tried (unsuccessfully so far) to “link” JUDITH and SIR RICHARD BUTLER (thus making her PIERCE BUTLER’s sister and sibling), but I have never seen anything definitive to establish her exact parentage – only suppositions and well-reasoned presumptions (like her husband, THOMAS TENNANT, being given a minor job on the Estate of Sir Richard late in his life, which would most likely have been based upon Judith’s family connection to Sir Richard).I have previously posted my suppositions concerning all this on line on the “Butler Family Message Board” on
Do you (or any of the other recipients of this missive) have any ideas on how best to further researching this?I spent about 4-5 hours on it last night (after a “breather of a year or two to see if something “new” had been developed by somebody), and again came up “dry” on trying to better “ID” all of those 6 daughters or link “our” JUDITH as being one of them.Perhaps your research skills are better than mine, and if so, and if you have the time and interest I’d welcome one more crack at trying to trace this common ancestor of ours.I “feel” certain that JUDITH BUTLER is likely one Sir Richard’s offspring, but would love to be able to definitively prove or document it.Otherwise, I have “hit the wall” on her lineage.
Cheers, CUZ JOHN
John S. Hoff
Hoff & Herran
20 S. Clark Street
Suite 2210
Chicago, Illinois 60603
312 346-8111 - T
[email protected]
www.aviationattorney.com
Hello John,
My name is Walter Butler, and I am one of the cousins who will be attending the Butler Rally this year along with Aileen Gaye McKay and company from New Zealand.
Aileen has kindly forwarded to me some of the correspondence concerning your plans to attend the Rally, along with your interest in getting additional information on the children and descendnts of Sir Richard Butler, 5th Bart. of Ballintemple, Co. Carlow.
The records of Lord John Dunboyne (whichwere compiled by his father, the late Lord Paddy Dunboyne, during the many years that he served as the Genealogist of the Butler Society) show that Sir Richard Butler 5th Bart had 10 children, four sons Thomas, James, Pierce, and William Paul, and six daughters, Ann, Frances, Henrietta, Ellinor, Hannah, and Jane.
If you do get to attend the Butler Rally, you will have an opportunity to meet Lord Dunboyne in person, and with his permission, I could provide you with a copy of his father's record of family group # 256, "The Barts," which includes an authoritative skeleton pedigree of Sir Richard's branch of the family.
I will look forward to meeting you in August.
Regards,
Walter Butler