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Re: Thomas Barnard
Posted by: kathryn.b (ID *****3447) Date: August 21, 2007 at 14:08:45
In Reply to: Thomas Barnard by patricia thrower of 2975

Hi Patricia! I'm not connected as far as I can tell, but I'll dig into any Barnards just in case (and any name at all, just to avoid working, heh).

This could be your household in the 1851 census:

Thomas Barnard 33
Elizabeth Barnard 37
Lucy Barnard 10
Robert Barnard 11
Samuel Barnard 6
William Barnard 8
Eliza Jones 19

They're living in Mile End Old Town.

Problem, though. Thomas was born in Castle Tonegon, Suffolk, and Elizabeth in Ropsley, Lincolnshire. Those, of course, are Ancestry transcriptions -- I don't know what the Suffolk location actually was, and can't decipher the image.

That Robert is shown as born in Stepney.

This would appear to be that Robert's birth record in the General Registry Office index:

Name: Robert Barnard
Year of Registration: 1839
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Stepney (To 1921)
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 2
Page: 452

If he's yours, you could order that up quick and easy, and you'd know his mother's birth surname as soon as you got it -- takes about two weeks.


That household in the 1861 census is:

Thos Willm Barnard 44
Elizabeth Barnard 49
Lucy Ann Barnard 20
Robert Barnard 21
Samuel Barnard 16
William B Barnard 18

Now hmm, though, it really doesn't look like the right family. Robert and Lucy certainly match up with your names, but we're missing all the other children you name, and have a couple of spares. He's just the only Robert in the censuses who matches up though -- there's one in 1851 who was born in Lambeth, but his household looks like this:

Robert Barnard 38 - born in Lambeth
Mary Barnard 35 - born in Lambeth
Edward Barnard 11 Mo
James Barnard 4
Robert Barnard 11
Sarah Barnard 8

Not the right ones at all.


Here are what look like the Thomas and Elizabeth you're talking about, in 1851:

Thomas Barnard 30 - born in Lambeth
Eliza Barnard 29 - born in Edmonton
Ellen Barnard 4
John Barnard 2
Mary Ann Barnard 6

but their children don't match up. Ah -- but Mary Ann does. And Ellen and John could have died in childhood and been unknown to you.


So alrighty. Here's your Emily's family in 1861 (I should have started this way and worked backward as I normally do, duh):

Thomas Barnard 41 - born in Surrey; machine printer
Eliza Barnard 40 - born in Enfield
Emily Barnard 10 - born in London City
Henry S Barnard 7
Maria J Barnard 4 - born in London City
Mary A Barnard 16

So it is indeed that last-mentioned household in 1851.

I think you've added a bunch of kids to the household who are strangers to it! -- unless the other names you mentioned were children who died in infancy and don't appear in censuses. You seem to have mixed up the children of a different Thomas & Elizabeth with the children of Thomas & Eliza, who are really your Emily's parents.

Here's the household in 1871:

Eliza Barnard 51
Henry Barnard 17
Maria Barnard 14


I'm having trouble identifying Emily's birth in the GRO (fairly common name, lots of Emilys 1850-51ish in London/Middlesex, none in City of London), but here is Maria's, certainly:

Name: Maria Jane Barnard
Year of Registration: 1856
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: City of London
County: London
Volume: 1c
Page: 57

So this time we can say it ;) -- order up the birth cert, and you'll have Eliza's birth surname.

Just get your credit card out, and go here:

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

(I've checked the volume/page numbers against the original images for the Maria and Henry births and Thomas marriage in this post, and they're correct.)

This would be Henry:

Name: Henry Thomas Barnard
Year of Registration: 1854
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: City of London
County: London
Volume: 1c
Page: 71

FreeBMD has been a little slow, for some strange reason, with transcribing the GRO index for the mid-1850s. It also takes Ancestry (where I'm searching) a while to catch up to FreeBMD -- but no Emily there in City of London, either. She just may not be transcribed yet. There's a list at the bottom of this post of the possibles, from:

http://www.freebmd.org.uk

I would guess that this is your Emily in 1871, after her father died and she left the family household:

Name: Emily Barnard
Age: 19
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Hackney St John
Ecclesiastical parish: Hackney St John
County/Island: London

Here is her household in 1881:

Robert A. Watkins 27
Emily Watkins 29 - born in Bethnal Green
Arthur H. Watkins 4
Emily E. Watkins 1

Phew. Her place of birth shifts.

In 1891:

Robert A Watkins 37
Emily Watkins 38 - born in London, Middlesex
Arthur H Watkins 14
Charles E Watkins 2
Emily E Watkins 11
Margaret M Watkins 4
Rose M A Watkins 7
Sidney B Watkins 9

She also loses a year per decade ;) -- not uncommon.


Here's a marriage possibility for her parents:

Name: Thomas Barnard
Year of Registration: 1840
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Marylebone (1837-1901)
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1
Page: 251

One of the brides on the same page (it has four couples) is Eliza Watts.

Unfortunately, if that marriage is them, they were married by the 1841 census, so no chance of catching them in their parents' households. I can't find them in 1841 at all. The transcriptions/originals are pretty awful in many cases, of course, so it might take quite a while to track them down.

But you can certainly find Eliza's surname if you order the birth certificate for either Maria or Henry.

If it's Watts, order up the marriage certificate above and find out Thomas's and Eliza's fathers' names. (If it isn't, go through the marriages in the GRO index to find the right one, and order that cert.)


That should get you started!

Kathryn


Oh yes -- I was initially poking at your people because I've recently been in contact with a couple of people through Genes Reunited who I was hoping against hope shared a grx3 Barnard grandfather with me. Their respective grx2 grandfathers were apparently brothers (they hadn't figured this out!) and their place and dates of birth matched up with my grx2 grandfather. We have just learned that one's father was James; no good, mine was Richard. The other one has a line drawn through the space for father's name on his marriage certificate -- aargh! Anyhow, it seems they didn't come from Bristol at all, but from London, which was why I took an interest in yours. Apart from just being addicted to the chase ... ;)




Births Mar 1851
Barnard        Emily Esther               
Shoreditch       
2       475       

Births Jun 1851
Barnard        Emily               
Greenwich       
5       220       

Births Dec 1851
BARNARD        Emily               
Dunmow       
12       80       

Births Mar 1852
Barnard        Emily               
Bermondsey       
1d       99       

Births Jun 1852
BARNARD        Emily               
St Geo Sk       
1d       139       
BARNARD        Emily Hannah               
Poplar       
1c       544       


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